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De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

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Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#291

This removes WinSxS. That's fine for embedded, since you'd just package the DLLs you need with any executables you want to run, but trying to run this as a general purpose OS is a fools' errand. Calling WinSxS "bloat" when that "bloat" is allowing 30+ years of backwards compatibility (and a lot of stuff will break) is creative by the article's author for sure. Nothing wrong with Tiny11 though, if you know what it is…

The idea that removing WinSxS saves space is generally misguided anyway. The vast majority of content there is actually the original file that was used to create a hard link at the destination. So obviously removing the file doesn’t really save any appreciable amount of space. The remaining content unique to WinSXS is either for cryptographic validation, app compat, or the driver stack.

Came here to say this.

WinSXS looks like a huge folder in explorer, because explorer's size estimates do not tell you about hard links. It's not that big. I need to question somebody who thinks removing it will remove a lot of bloat.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because integration into the desktop is better as an Electron app. Eg sound and video calls, keyboard shortcuts, not having to worry about finding your Discord/Slack/whatever tab

I would't say Electron is better desktop integration. Discord for example is literally just a chrome-less Chrome; the zoom in/out hotkeys in Chrome still work in it. This is also not mentioning how no Electron program ever visually adheres to the desktop environment it's running in.

Electron can call native OS APIs the browser can't.

An example: https://stackoverflow.com/a/39569062

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, how much RAM does it take? You let that bit out.

If they spend money for NVMe SSD, 38" display and 2 Gbps fiber. My bet is 128GB.

Could you explain why any of the things he says make you think a number that high? I'm just finishing building my first PC ever (I've used computers for ... 20 years? But never actually built one). And I have a 1TB NVMe SSD from Western Digital, it was about 60 bucks. I have a 35" BenQ monitor from work, I think it was around $600 at the time of purchase. I don't have fiber at my home, but from what I understand, it's not prohibitively expensive in general. Anyway - I went with 16gb RAM. That felt like a reasonable starting point considering my current and prior daily driver were there as well. My build (minus admittedly expensive monitor) was, to me compared to the Macbooks I usually have for work, a fairly modest $1250 or so. So, roughly the same specs - seems like nothing too crazy?

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#294
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how much backwards compatability do i neee nowadays? my laptop only needs to run a few things: browser vscode steam the microsoft drawing app some office stuff sublime discord which all update pretty regularly. the age of the desktop app has been replaced by the age of the browser and electron based apps. i can imagine businesses who built their own set ups back in the age of the desktop app being stuck with it, but…

Isn't it interesting that both you and I frequently use Sublime and VS Code? Why can't VS Code kill off Sublime? It's interesting to me where a text editor like Sublime can't be a preferable IDE, but an IDE also isn't a preferable text editor?

I've migrated to vscode from sublime. Vscode integrated debugger, lsp, etc are way ahead of sublime. That said, typing in sublime just feels good compared to vscode. I keep sublime around for quick edits.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#295

This removes WinSxS. That's fine for embedded, since you'd just package the DLLs you need with any executables you want to run, but trying to run this as a general purpose OS is a fools' errand. Calling WinSxS "bloat" when that "bloat" is allowing 30+ years of backwards compatibility (and a lot of stuff will break) is creative by the article's author for sure. Nothing wrong with Tiny11 though, if you know what it is…

The idea that removing WinSxS saves space is generally misguided anyway. The vast majority of content there is actually the original file that was used to create a hard link at the destination. So obviously removing the file doesn’t really save any appreciable amount of space. The remaining content unique to WinSXS is either for cryptographic validation, app compat, or the driver stack.

Hmm, so how can you see the real size of winsxs?

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. My initial response to any post beginning something like "On Windows XP..." "On Windows 7..." "On Debian..." would be like: "Well you already have Windows XP/7/Debian/whatever. If you want to use that, use that. Nobody is forcing you to use Windows 11." For the people who do want to use Windows 11, and who see it for what it is, it's pretty great. For the people who use Windows XP/7 or who stick to some minim…

debloating does not mean "making it like XP/W7" - it means ripping out the horsecrap and unnecessairy components that are both unnecessairy and a waste of space and being able to control what goes on your system - sort of like what nix allows us to do; it also means having options to turn things on and off, ect. for the non tech savvy - windows is still a great choice for those wanting to simply game and not learn so…

For the enthusiasts who are doing the debloating, it's almost like they are gaming the system as they move from one level to another.

Twenty years ago I had already been installing Windows XP to FAT32 volumes directly to be more compatible with W9x multibooting. I didn't know anybody else doing this (some thought it couldn't be done) but every time I installed XP you can see the names of every driver as it loads during creation of the pre-installation environment. The very last two drivers are FAT32.SYS followed by NTFS.SYS. I figured Windows might have first been made functional on FAT32 but launched with the intention of total migration to NTFS for most people as seen.

In my later experimentation I found that Vista would run from a FAT32 partition but default Windows 7 would not do it very easily, simply because the WinSxS folder (pronounced win-sucks) was oversized in an insidious way.

The W7 WinSxS folder size was bigger than Vista's but it did not approach the maximum size that FAT32 can handle.

Instead it was the un-necessarily stupidly long filenames which overran the long-filename handling ability of FAT32 early when there were enough of them. Like the best engineers would never have even considered doing at the time, much less go into production.

By judiciously deleting the majority of the contents of WinSxS (but not all by any means), W7 can be run from FAT32 as well without any functional shortcomings as far as my office was concerned.

The modern approach to testing this for yourself would be to install the default W7 to a regular NTFS volume, then debloat the WinSxS folder manually, perhaps in safe mode or when booted to an alternative OS so none of the files on the W7 volume are in use at the time.

Reboot to something like the W11 USB setup media, "Troubleshoot" to go to the command prompt (instead of installing W11), then capture (back up) the debloated dormant W7 partition manually using DISM.EXE.

Then later, on a freshly formatted FAT32 drive, apply the captured W7 system, again using DISM.

Create new boot files for the newly applied W7 system using BCDBOOT.EXE.

Boot W7 while it's on FAT32 and prosper.

Works not that much faster than on an NTFS volume, but if you can reboot to Windows 9x on a multiboot system, you can search the FAT32 W7 volume blazingly faster than when the identical W7 system searches itself while on NTFS.

Now of course all of this needs to be done in legacy BIOS mode since UEFI alone is not adequate for such continued full PC performance.

I guess I could have been playing video games instead but reaching this level seemed just as rewarding anyway.

Wonder if W11 would do this.

Edit: For extra credit I already put W11 onto old BIOS PC's without any GPT, with regular MBR like it was W10.

Bypassing hardware restrictions into smaller-than-recommended NTFS volumes using DISM.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#297

I think the two top questions lots of Windows users would like answered now are: 0- Did they also remove telemetry and similar malware? 1- Is it usable for gaming? I mean, didn't they also remove anything important among the cruft? I have memories of shrunk XP "distros" back in the day that were hacked to the point they refused to run a lot of software.

Telemetry isn't malware.

Telemetry that you can't disable is spyware. And spyware is malware. QED.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#298
post #138
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/gaming/gdk/_content/gc/sys...

Direct storage doesn’t address the majority of these concerns though. It only means the CPU doesn’t need to load data first to shuffle it over, but it doesn’t help if the CPU does need to access said data or schedule it. It’s largely applicable mainly to games where resource access is known ahead of time.

Wouldnt a desktop interface also be a predefined set of resources? Usually with far less visual flare too.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they spend money for NVMe SSD, 38" display and 2 Gbps fiber. My bet is 128GB.

Could you explain why any of the things he says make you think a number that high? I'm just finishing building my first PC ever (I've used computers for ... 20 years? But never actually built one). And I have a 1TB NVMe SSD from Western Digital, it was about 60 bucks. I have a 35" BenQ monitor from work, I think it was around $600 at the time of purchase. I don't have fiber at my home, but from what I understand, it'…

Likely the fiber setting expectations, 2gbps is the "premium" tier in many places, where the monthly difference between fast and the top speed is about the same as 32gb of ram.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#300
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or if they desperately need photoshop or whatever, get a mac. I'm kind of in that situation and I don't thing going with Mac and the Apple ecosystem really is better than trying to use Windows 10 as long as possible on an older Thinkpad.

What about the gimp?

*The GIMP™
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