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Is remote work bad for the economy?

fractional.work

291–300 of 363 posts

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I think you should consider more than your own happiness, we're talking about the economy” Did I misinterpret this?

A generous interpretation would be: when making policy decisions we should maximize the happiness of many people, not specific individuals.

Perhaps but I didn’t see any discussion of policy, just what you should be considering as a person. The article wasn’t about policy either, just whether this personal choice is good for the economy or not. I’m not sure there’s a policy decision that can be made to reverse what’s inevitable. Companies that eliminate or reduce their real estate footprint will improve EPS and given data thus far improve productivity, making them structurally more competitive than “collocate bags of carbon water for fun.” Work from home is the lowest energy state for a company and worker, and nature prefers low energy states. So, in the absence of any policy context I’m just left with the admonition, that read more generously, is: “you should think about more than just yourself, there’s others that depend on you.” But as written it’s an absurdism - you should never make individual choices that exchange your bliss for GDP. Even rewritten to be generous, while perhaps you should think about it, you definitely shouldn’t spend less time with your family so Subway branches near your office don’t have to relocate to near your home.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my confusion, but why do you specify needing space away from work now when the vast majority of your concerns prior was struggling with textual mediums? I could suggest if you want to be on prem, you can be. But none of that will address that not only do you want to be on prem you have frustration that other people are not. Couldn’t difficulty with communication be resolved via personal occupational therapy o…

But how do you identify if the issue is with you or them? If its you, sure you could. But if it's them, how so you convince that they have a problem? Why would it be my problem, when I get on with other folk? I find that talking in person, allows me to express what I'm wanting to express clearly. Its hard, but easier. Why can't a compromise be made where you have three days off and then the two you come in? Why does…

Wel I mean, there are definitely jobs like that. Why not just take those? Let the people who want to be 100% remote just work at the jobs that are 100% remote, instead of working at a 100% remote job and wanting the workplace to change. I’m sympathetic that you mentioned having a disability (if social blindness is what you meant by this) but I’m unsure if making everyone you talk to commute into the office a reasonable accommodation.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#293
post #285

This applies everywhere: just because a job or business has existed does not mean it has a right to exist forever. This is not being harsh on people; it's just a reality. The blacksmiths in the horse and buggy days saw demand for their services fall when time and technologies changed. The coal miners began losing their jobs when we realized that coal as fuel was more harmful than it was beneficial. History is full of…

The pro remote work viewpoints on HN seem like experienced developers, probably with families, often with terrible commutes externalizing the costs of what’s apparently good for them personally to their colleagues and peers: * removing an outlet for socializing for people that are new to the area / country and don’t have friends. * lack of face to face team bonding for new employees. * lack of personal social contact…

Most of these can largely be mitigated if teams/organizations intentionally support socializing and interaction. For example - the team I'm currently on hold all meetings with cameras turned on (it's the social norm, not an official policy); twice a week we hold a "social programming" session which is more for idle chitchat than being productive; and we encourage pairing and group work - not because we think it's more productive (it may or may not be) but because it's sometimes more enjoyable or less frustrating.

On the flip side, a former shop basically treated remote workers as if we were robots. Everything was about 'productivity'. One of the most inhumane places I've been.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of the economy is to fulfill human desires. The only question we have to ask to understand which situation resulted in higher economic output is: which situation resulted in satisfying more human desires. It's clear that the pointless burning of fossil fuels didn't satisfy any human need. Then the question becomes: is the distribution of currency caused by the buying and burning of the fuels preferable to…

> the pointless burning of fossil fuels didn't satisfy any human need. That sentence would have a different meaning if the conclusitory (looking for real word here) word "pointless" was not there. Abundant reliable on-demand energy has enormously improved the human condition. I'm also glad the Dutch no longer dig up peat bogs for dirty fuel.

Driving to work, when you can/prefer to work from home, is pointless.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#295
post #14

The author talks about three data points: 1. Is there less restaurant business? 2. Does it hurt city real estate? 3. People spend more time with family. I'm much more interested in other points about how remote work has an impact on the economy. * How do cities and states attract well paid remote workers? Who are the winners and losers of this transition. * How does remote work impact wages? A programmer in Nashville…

(I’m the author)

This is an underrated comment. These are good threads to pull on in future posts - thanks.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of the economy is to fulfill human desires. The only question we have to ask to understand which situation resulted in higher economic output is: which situation resulted in satisfying more human desires. It's clear that the pointless burning of fossil fuels didn't satisfy any human need. Then the question becomes: is the distribution of currency caused by the buying and burning of the fuels preferable to…

> It's clear that the pointless burning of fossil fuels didn't satisfy any human need. Yeah, but ... how much of it was pointless? Who decides if a use-case is pointless? You? Me? The government?

If it didn't satisfy anyones desire, it was pointless.

Burning fossil fuels can of course also be meaningful.

We're talking about driving to work when you can work from home.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it is fun. But the point of the article and discussion is not to be city-phobic like your quote suggests -- rather why do we need our economy to focus around people commuting? It is not only inner-city folks. A lot of these restaurants in cities rely on all of the people coming in for work.

I was replying to someone who said spending money in restaurants is undesirable. I was not replying to the article.

[deleted]

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#298
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's how that works. It's evident by the fact that there are no school towns like there are college towns. Once the people earning the money move out, there is no taxes left to fund education. Unless we nationalize education, which is not going to happen (at least in America).

> no taxes left to fund education which is why it's really a stupid policy decision to fund schooling via local taxation. There should be federally funded schools.

I think this is the exact wrong direction.

California moved to statewide funding parity for schools and voters simply decided they don't want to pay taxes that aren't local. This lead directly to capping property taxes in the state.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Cambridge, MA (a city for sure) and used to work in an office near the Waltham/Lexington line. Not some out in the rural woods places at all. I looked up and wrote up my “what if I tried to commute on public transit to make a 9AM meeting?” It’s ugly to the point where no one would voluntarily choose it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31723197

Bad public transit exists all over. That doesn't make the idea of public transit bad, it just means we need better management of it.

Random route service is difficult to efficiently serve with mass transit. Public transit doesn't have to be specifically mass transit, but the collective need of "I need to go from random place A to random place B and later return" is almost never going to line up with a mass transit solution.

Having high frequency mass transit service and decent transfers is better than the current situation, but it's really, really hard to compete with "sub-minute latency, personalized perfectly random route".

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to fast food when you say that $5 USD is a meal?

yeah, i would like an example of a meal for $5 from a restaurant of any kind. A meal for < $10 is quite rare even for fast food, a slice of pizza and a coke from 7/11 is pushing $10.

> yeah, i would like an example of a meal for $5 from a restaurant of any kind.

Eating out doesn't necessarily mean restaurant, unless you use the term loosely. Restaurants typically sell an experience, not food, and indeed you expect to pay for that experience. It is something not duplicatable at home, at least not for the price a restaurant can offer it to you. Even a high priced restaurant is cheap compared to hiring servants to come to your home.

What's fast food? I consider McDonalds fast food, but they aren't in the food business and thus wouldn't be expected to provide for $5. The term fast food is quite loaded, in my experience.

Which market are you in? We know for certain that there isn't price uniformity in all locations. I'm not at all surprised that you could be paying $10+ for the same meal I pay $5 for. Which brings us back to asking what is rent? Again, that kitchen is occupying space that must be accounted for. You're being completely disingenuous if you ignore the bulk of your costs of operating a kitchen.

You can choose to accept those costs. I like to cook and would hate life if I had to eat out every day even if were at the best restaurants around, so I do too, but I'm not going to pretend they don't exist. The cost of eating at home isn't just the raw ingredients. That would be unfair to not only the discussion, but also yourself and your finances if you aren't being honest with yourself.

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