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Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

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Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#291
post #18

Probably worth noting this story was first published by the New York Post. Take that for what you will. That said, this is a pretty wild turn of events. From the initial and continued sexual harassment/assault to the racism, and subsequent retaliation. More curious is the very direct "your team is too male" and the encouragement to fire someone. I've heard this hinted at before, but never said out loud for obvious re…

>More curious is the very direct "your team is too male" and the encouragement to fire someone. My friend who still lives in the Valley says this kind of sentiment is incredibly common there nowadays, e.g. advertising an open position and having discussions internally that a man won't be hired for the role. It's pretty surprising to me, because statistics show that most major careers have a gender imbalance in one di…

> Why is this? What is the ethical justification for why addressing the gender imbalance in STEM/software engineering should be such an urgent moral priority?

Probably just because $$$. Have you ever seen someone advocate for more female coal miners or truck drivers?

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Billy Graham/Mike Pence rule is your best bet: don't let yourself be in any situation where a false accusation could arise. Of course you'll be accused of being a sexist/misogynist/whatever instead but that's easier to ignore or overcome than false accusations of sexual harassment.

Hard disagree. If I decide I can have a closed-door 1:1 or a lunch 1:1 with some of my direct reports but not with any that are female, I’m inherently discriminating against them. I’d way rather treat all employees fairly and fade a <1% chance of a false accusation than to treat employees unequally and cut that chance in half.

>I’d way rather treat all employees fairly and fade a It's a lot larger than 1%< depending on how long your career is and how many individuals you encounter over its course.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#293

These stories leave a bad taste in my mouth. It hasn't yet gone to court, so the guys allegations could be really be anything from the God's honest truth all the way to a complete fabrication. Yet there is a huge amount of irreparable damage by public stories like this. I was once personally on the receiving end of a complete false sexual harassment allegation from a coworker almost at random (someone I had almost no…

False allegations should carry the same penalty as the crime being alleged.

[deleted]

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#294

> Olohan said he began feeling increasing pressure from his supervisor, who told him that there were “obviously too many white guys” on his management team. In July he was encouraged to fire a male employee to make room on his team for a woman, the suit claims. This is the most crazy section. Why physical characteristics like gender or ethnicity should be important in the management selection? And if yes, why only th…

Because we as society decided so.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#296
Most of the comments here seem to be about false accusations. Its as if they don't want to believe a man could have been sexually harassed. I can't remember seeing so much scepticism when there are stories about harassment against women. Maybe people are more scared to be sceptical when it's a woman making the accusations.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#297
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>More curious is the very direct "your team is too male" and the encouragement to fire someone. My friend who still lives in the Valley says this kind of sentiment is incredibly common there nowadays, e.g. advertising an open position and having discussions internally that a man won't be hired for the role. It's pretty surprising to me, because statistics show that most major careers have a gender imbalance in one di…

> Why is this? What is the ethical justification for why addressing the gender imbalance in STEM/software engineering should be such an urgent moral priority? Probably just because $$$. Have you ever seen someone advocate for more female coal miners or truck drivers?

> Have you ever seen someone advocate for more female coal miners or truck drivers?

All the time, as they should.

They also let women be engineers, geologists, farmers, doctors, etc.

Is this surprising to you?

[1] https://www.riotinto.com/news/releases/2022/Rio-Tinto-female...

[2] https://www.macktrucks.com.au/community/blog/2017/february/m...

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#298

> Olohan said he began feeling increasing pressure from his supervisor, who told him that there were “obviously too many white guys” on his management team. In July he was encouraged to fire a male employee to make room on his team for a woman, the suit claims. This is the most crazy section. Why physical characteristics like gender or ethnicity should be important in the management selection? And if yes, why only th…

> Why physical characteristics like gender or ethnicity should be important in the management selection?

To be clear, the below is not taking into account the allegations in the article, but just seeks to explain the thinking without judgement (as I'm frankly not sure which side I fall down on).

There's a school of thought that some degree of weighting helps to redress systemic issues by changing incentives, justified on the basis that there should be an equally capable pool of candidates in the underrepresented demographics.

The thinking then goes that e.g. if promotions at certain levels are biased, the argument for allowing that bias to continue is often that the pool to promote from leaves too few capable candidates of the underrepresented groups.

The problem with that, is that if (to take extreme numbers for simplicity) 100% of people being promoted from VP to SVP in a company are white men, then a lot of women and non-white people will either self-select out or not get promoted at lower level because it's a strong signal they're not valued and have no future there.

That in itself can make it a goal to diversify companies at higher levels irrespective of the current talent available for promotion at the level below.

As a concrete example, in 2006 Norway added a legal requirement for at least 40% of either gender at board level of a public limited company (ASA; usually listed companies as only ASA's can be listed, though they don't have to be) and in some other situations (e.g. companies with significant government ownership), and during the debates over this change, this was part of the arguments:

If there weren't enough qualified candidates, that was itself considered evidence of a systemic bias that making the change was hoped to help address. Both by giving women an incentive to stay on track towards board seats and give companies an incentive to address other biases to ensure there was a capable pool. Over time, it was also hoped that getting women onto boards would further strengthen the pressure from boards on companies to address the, as well as further develop a pool of women with growing board experience.

It was explicitly acknowledged by many proponents that there was a chance that it'd be hard to find suitable candidates initially, but that was seen as a sufficiently temporary problem to be addressed by companies through training and mentoring, not a justification for not changing the incentives.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> STEM is 100% historically discriminatory to women So that women prefer to pick other fields is STEM's fault?

[flagged]

I don't know where you did STEM related education, but in my environment a women in a group project would get extra points relative to the rest. So I saw the exact opposite of what you describe.

And at work, women seems to rise to management levels easier than men. But hey, this is EU, not US.

Edit: you're pointing me to something that happened in 1890? WTF???

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Totally admirable intention” What? That’s not admirable at all. That’s blatant sexism. “(STEM is 100% historically discriminatory to women)” Lol no, if anything it’s clearly discriminatory towards men in the false assumption that low female population isn’t an internal cause

I posted these links elsewhere in the thread, but I'll post them again. Pretty much every job has a gender imbalance to some degree or another. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/E... https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/software-deve...

Gender imbalance on it's own doesn't say everything. You should actually talk with women in STEM. Many of them shared their horrible experiences so far.
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