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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#291
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please accept cash. We don't need to encourage credit card companies to track our purchases and give them the tools to control who can and cannot do business.

Why would a credit card company do that?

I really don't know. But they must have reasons I don't know about.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#292
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that you can run any industry without tipping, but that's not really saying anything interesting, because you also demonstrably can run industries with tipping. I don't like tipping for the power dynamic or because I'm "helping the working class"; I just get the logic of it, and am fine playing along.

You're fine playing along because you're on the winning side of the deal. Say you were a software contractor, would you be ok with working for a customer based only on an "expected price range" with a 4x spread, over which the customer has complete unilateral discretion, decided only after the work has been completed? If your first instinct is "that's different", I'd like to know how.

In what way am I on the winning side of this deal, and how might I find myself on the losing side of it? If you're thinking that I'm beating out the people who can't afford to tip, you should bear in mind that the abolition of tipping would mechanically imply prices raising across the board to the average level of the previous tipping. TANSTAAFL.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#293
The solution to eliminating tipping while also incentivizing servers and others to provide excellent service seems pretty obvious - raise prices by 20% on every transaction in the service industry, and then the employee gets that percentage.

This is good for the business as it encourages the server to provide good service (as long at they clearly understand the importance of the return customer), and also rewards them when the business gets really busy (the result of continually providing good service & good products).

It does eliminate the ability of the customer to play the role of generous or stingy aristocrat, but if they don't like it, they can just not come back.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that you can run any industry without tipping, but that's not really saying anything interesting, because you also demonstrably can run industries with tipping. I don't like tipping for the power dynamic or because I'm "helping the working class"; I just get the logic of it, and am fine playing along.

It's true that you can run any industry with tipping, but that's not really saying anything interesting, because you also demonstrably can run industries without tipping. I like tipping for the power dynamic and because I'm "helping the working class"; I get the logic of it, and am fine playing along.

I don't claim there's anything interesting about observing that tipping exists; it obviously does, and is a system that has been functioning in America for generations.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this. I'm reading your claim as "you should pay people so they become your friends." There's plenty of stores I've been regulars at that don't have a tipping system that I've become friendly with staff with. When I was a teenager and worked at movie theaters I became friendly with many regulars and tipping doesn't exist there. The warm fuzzies come from social interaction, face recognition, and being…

When I pay people to perform services for me, I don't operate under the illusion that we've become friends. I go to my favorite restaurant in Chicago and get brought a couple dishes on the house as soon as we're seated --- that's not because we're friends, it's because I've built a business relationship with the restaurant (and its servers). It's exactly the same dynamic as exists for airline customers who pay up for…

As the meme goes, "that's a nice hypothesis you've got there. Be a shame if someone were to test it". If tipping fixes a supposed incentive problem that exists with tip-free service, than restaurant service should be better in North America than anywhere else in the world. Is it? Empirically, no. And even locally there is no gain from tipping: Seattle has several tip-free restaurants and the service is indistinguishable from the rest of them.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#296
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping is a system in which customers explicitly, optionally, and variably share some of the cost of labor. It has the features of allowing individual patrons to modulate the labor subsidy they provide, based on their current price sensitivity, the value they place on warm fuzzies (don't dismiss this!), the relationship they want to build with the business, and the service they perceive themselves to be getting. You…

Friendliness or a general level of service is in a lot of industries considered a competitive factor that contributes to increased customer lifetime value through repeat sales, loyalty etc. Why should the restaurants be any different? If I like the food and the service, I'll want to come again - the restaurant increases their earnings that way and both I and the business are happy. The question then again comes down…

People keep asking "why should American restaurants be different?"

The answer is simple: because they choose to set these terms.

Restaurants are far from the most idiosyncratic businesses customers interact with. Buy a plane ticket sometime! Different businesses have different pricing structures.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#297
post #267
post #83

> Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed Here in AU we call that "wages". Having to do quick maths while under social pressure and the threat of having your service quality degraded to make up for an employer or state being unwilling to pay workers enough to live might be called "coercion", but certainly it is externalising costs onto the cus…

The US faced a dilemma: Post civil war, many people didn't want to pay freed slaves for their labor. A combination of tipping and converting jobs that were typically held by blacks to unpaid positions provided a solution. It became popular despite attempts to ban the practice. Today, tipped workers in the US are paid, but have a lower minimum wage than normal workers. Source: https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-…

> Today, tipped workers in the US are paid, but have a lower minimum wage than normal workers.

Not in all states.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#298
post #276

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

> and give customers an option to donate to a charity if they still wish to part with additional money. Please no. That's how it usually starts. It was with small change but now McDonalds harasses you every time you make an order to round up for some charity I never heard about. I'd donate to charities on my own. Needless to say I avoid these places like the plague.

[flagged]

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#299

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

Somewhat of a meta-comment but I’m shocked at how many people are complaining about you not taking cash. Has anyone ever walked out of your coffee shop because they only had cash on them? I can’t remember the last time I paid or even saw someone pay cash for anything.

If a place doesn't accept cash, I leave. Cash is one of our last remaining bastions of freedom. I would gladly pay by card, if those cards were anonymous, refillable with cash. But these do not exist anymore, even for small amounts. They insist they must know your every last $0.50 transaction.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#300
post #2

Yes. If you business wants to collect a "tip" up front, before services rendered, it's not a tip (Doordash, Instacart, etc). If 100% of the proceeds don't get straight to the employees, but some end up in the pocket of the business, it's not a tip. This last one is going to be to hear, but if you pay your employees below mimimum wage and allow for tips to make up the difference, well..... Always tip, in cash, direct…

I contacted my senators and representatives about how the IRS should classify tips made before service. I got a call back from my senator’s office. The reasoning I presented was: that automatic gratuity for large parties is taxed differently than actual gratuity in some jurisdictions (why those have disappeared in most places), and that since the tip is used to determine order priority it is not a tip but is instead a bid for preferential service.

I also went through a call to get back a tip I made on a Chipotle order (DoorDash I believe) up front after the driver failed to find the address and then chewed me out after driving through parking lots for 5 minutes.

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