Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats • Hacker News Board

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#291

Post by musicale » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:54 PM UTC

shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine?

Painkillers can provide relief for emotional pain as well as physical pain.

Even something like Tylenol can help people going through painful breakups.

Unfortunately opioids are addictive and users build up tolerance, which is bad for people with chronic pain of any variety.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#292

Post by skinnymuch » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:55 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #259

asveikau wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like your first paragraph and your second one contradict each other. They start for various reasons, like your example of "seeking recreation" and having a certain person nearby. They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. I do not think personal responsibility is the right topic for that once it has gotten to that point. They've entered a state of physical dependence in which the rea…

> They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. What you wrote here is actually the issue I was trying to communicate: The notion that addicts are helpless and that the drug and/or society has already determined their outcome is the problem. This sets up a defeatist attitude where people feel like they shouldn't even try to overcome addiction because their contribution to the equation is 0%. D…

Thinking it’s not my fault worked for me. Your argument is a conservative argument.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#293

Post by P_I_Staker » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:56 PM UTC

shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

There’s also the medical systems unwillingness to help certain people and medicate; then people end up on the street getting more dangerous drugs in an uncontrolled fashion.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#294

Post by spangeanon » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:56 PM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #254

patientplatypus wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm homeless and living in the Tenderloin in San Francisco. People here want you to - Be in a gang (or a prostitute, thief, ex-con and so forth) - Be on drugs (or in rehab for drugs) - Have a mental illness (so you can go to therapy) - Be disabled - Find religion There isn't a position for "I ran out of money and my family wouldn't support me, and at some point finding web development work became too hard as the tech…

I've been homeless and I think part of that is just for someone with no problems it doesn't make sense to be inner-urban homeless in these crim-ridden areas. I assume those people are all fucked up for one reason and therefore as a sane person I don't want to be around them. I had a very strict rule when I was homeless. Stay away from other homeless people. Camp on the edge of town. Ride the bus into rural areas. How…

Yeah, this right here.

Fishery: paid for transportation to the job, free housing and food on the job, and at the end of it you have a couple grand that hasn’t been blown on anything — free to do whatever you want with.

Tough work. You’re on a boat for 1-2 months. You work 12ish hours a day. If your body is able (or you can make it able), it’s good.

Next up is getting housing and cleaning yourself up for greener pastures. Oil fields is one. Lineman/tower climber is another.

Easy six figures. After a year of doing nothing but work, figure out what you want to do from there.

The work will distract you from your problems, and the change in environment will reset your mindset.

Lots of well-paid trades work in Washington for people that don’t have anything to lose.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#295

Post by HEmanZ » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:57 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #201

HEmanZ wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have known quite a few friends from earlier in my life who became serious addicts and ruined their lives or ended their lives by it. I would not describe a single one as having started using because they were mad at society, sad, or lonesome. It was always some strange kind of strange, arrogant fetishization of drug-life and crime-life. There is an almost "drug life is THE life, and everyone else is lame" attitude…

Were they bored, did they not have exciting career or family prospects, was it ennui? Low-grade emotions can lead to addictive behaviors, not only high intensity trauma. The decision to subscribe to a malignant anti-authority lifestyle still shows that something is wrong, if it becomes so attractive an alternative to forsake one's life for.

Reading HN, I get the strong suspicion many people didn’t grow up around drugs.

People don’t always think they are throwing away their lives. They think “this makes me cool” and “it’s no big deal” and “anyone who’s anyone does it”. Often there’s the confident assertion “this ruins other peoples lives but I’m too good/special for that”. And often they don’t even realize it’s a problem, even when they’ve hit rock bottom, even when they’ve ruined their families lives for their drug addiction.

I’m not claiming other, much sadder reasons don’t exist. Or that we shouldn’t do something to help people survive and recover, like this vaccine that could mean thousands of lives saved, thousands of fewer mothers crying at funerals.

But there is also a lot of personal responsibility involved, and we can’t make this claim, that I see so many people on HN try to make, that people who have ruined their life (and more importantly, often their families lives) thru their own choices have no responsibility. That it’s all fault of vague “society” and if we just ban together with , that people will stop making bad decisions about their lives.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#296

Post by P_I_Staker » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:57 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160

shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

You shouldn’t dismiss people’s opinions because they’re addicts… I agree with this hypothetical addict that you think should be ignored.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#297

Post by P_I_Staker » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #259

asveikau wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like your first paragraph and your second one contradict each other. They start for various reasons, like your example of "seeking recreation" and having a certain person nearby. They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. I do not think personal responsibility is the right topic for that once it has gotten to that point. They've entered a state of physical dependence in which the rea…

> They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. What you wrote here is actually the issue I was trying to communicate: The notion that addicts are helpless and that the drug and/or society has already determined their outcome is the problem. This sets up a defeatist attitude where people feel like they shouldn't even try to overcome addiction because their contribution to the equation is 0%. D…

Addiction treatment specialists are basically witch doctors

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#298

Post by bitL » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #259

asveikau wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like your first paragraph and your second one contradict each other. They start for various reasons, like your example of "seeking recreation" and having a certain person nearby. They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. I do not think personal responsibility is the right topic for that once it has gotten to that point. They've entered a state of physical dependence in which the rea…

> They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. What you wrote here is actually the issue I was trying to communicate: The notion that addicts are helpless and that the drug and/or society has already determined their outcome is the problem. This sets up a defeatist attitude where people feel like they shouldn't even try to overcome addiction because their contribution to the equation is 0%. D…

Why don't addicts get large doses of intravenous NAD+ by default? That would alleviate 90% of their addiction inside brain as they are typically brutally NAD+ depleted and on the hunt for anything that raises NAD+/FAD+ in the brain.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#299

Post by amw » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #259

asveikau wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like your first paragraph and your second one contradict each other. They start for various reasons, like your example of "seeking recreation" and having a certain person nearby. They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. I do not think personal responsibility is the right topic for that once it has gotten to that point. They've entered a state of physical dependence in which the rea…

> They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. What you wrote here is actually the issue I was trying to communicate: The notion that addicts are helpless and that the drug and/or society has already determined their outcome is the problem. This sets up a defeatist attitude where people feel like they shouldn't even try to overcome addiction because their contribution to the equation is 0%. D…

Conflating a holistic approach that acknowledges the material effect of the context around a person with the assertion that those things existing nullifies the contribution of said person's agency is one of the very stupidest contributions of individualism to society. Things can materially make abuse more likely. Actions can be taken _by society_ that will make any particular _individual_ abuse less likely, whatever the specifics in each individual situation. It is still largely effort by an abuser and their closest contacts that will make _specific, individual_ abuse less likely in the future. None of these analyses contradict.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#300

Post by bitL » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 10:02 PM UTC

schwartzworld wrote: post #210

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

Many people get addicted to drugs after being prescribed them following surgery or injury. I know someone this happened to exactly. They gave him a bunch of opiates for pain management and he took them as directed and wound up an addict. I think a lot fewer people "choose" to get addicted to medicine in this way than either you or the GP are implying.

Tell them to take NAD+ boosters like NR or NMN, or even the good old vitamin B3 in large quantities (1g/day). Addiction is often a sign of NAD+/FAD+ depletion in the brain.