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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#291

Post by tibbon »

wlesieutre wrote: post #283
londons_explore wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some countries you have a single one for the whole building, rather than one per circuit. That dramatically lowers the cost. The only real downside is that if you accidentally put your finger in the toaster, rather than just the power to your kitchen cutting off, the power to the whole house cuts off. I think thats a fine tradeoff to save $1200.

The bigger downside is nuisance tripping because the breaker doesn't like electrical noise emitted by some device or another in your house. I don't have any AFCIs but I've heard it's pretty common. You'd rather have one circuit go out instead of the whole house, and if all you have is the one AFCI breaker you're going to have a much harder time identifying what device(s) is the culprit.

I've mostly used them on new circuits, but have put them on a few of my older circuits too. For my small sample size, I've yet to have one nuisance trip.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#292

Post by xxpor »

kuschku wrote: post #210
throwawayacc3 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is incorrect. The EU/UK are on 230V at 50Hz at residential service entry.

I'm not sure where in EU you live, but every instant water heater, stove, and many semi-professional workshop devices require 380V. At least in Germany, 380V is standard for such devices and available in every household.

3 phase vs single phase depends on which country you're in in the EU.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#293

Post by DannyBee »

newZWhoDis wrote: post #37
BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

Required to sheath ground in green? What on earth for? That makes ground less effective since you want any incidental contact with ground to ground the object touching it.

Bare ground is allowed in lots of cases. The requirement is that insulated ground wires must be primarily green (IE green with yellow stripe is okay), but this is actually not new.

They must be > 6 awg to pull black and use green tape on the ends.

See 250.119.

This has been the case for a very long time though, at least since 2007 NEC. I don't have handy copies around for before then.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#294

Post by miguelazo »

anon23anon wrote: post #239
mikeg8 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Financially, yes. Physically? I’d bet good money most electricians are in much better physical shape. Pulling wire, climbing ladders, using hand tools… it’s more physically demanding than people think. (My cousin is a journeyman electrician and I helped him wire the new house I built).

well no duh that's why I go to the gym every morning. Looked at the average salary these peeps are making. Most ppl on here are making double plus some in my area as developers.

Those average salaries aren't very representative. Especially in major cities. We'll see how long those inflated developer salaries last as the layoffs pick up and AI replaces a lot of functions.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#295

Post by Symbiote »

brianwawok wrote: post #237
zbrozek wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electrical code has completely unreasonable and unrealistic demand factors associated with appliances. Basically "1" for just about everything, as well as 3 watts per square foot of floor area. If you sum all of these things up, I'm well above the 200 amp service delivered to my home. Reality? I had a peak draw of 23 amps from the grid in the last year. Luckily the NEC has an escape valve for folks who can prove that…

Right, don't go off code for having to do a big upgrade like this. I legit hit 100A several times a month. Have hit over 150A. Easy way for me to draw 100A at once: 40A: EV charging 32A: Electric Oven warming up at max 24A: Electric Dryer 40A: HotTub jets on 40A: AC ON Max Unlikely all of those are on full max, but it's pretty easy to imagine getting past 100A before we even touch things like lights and computers. EV…

Do Americans quote large appliance current at 220V or 110V equivalent?

From the EV it seems the former, but in that case I'm horrified at how power-hungry your appliances are.

A typical new oven sold in Europe is 3.6kW, 16A @ 230V.

A new tumble drier is 600W, so about 2.5A at 230V.

There's such a range of hot tub and AC sizes I can't compare these.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#296

Post by DannyBee »

bluGill wrote: post #119
newZWhoDis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Required to sheath ground in green? What on earth for? That makes ground less effective since you want any incidental contact with ground to ground the object touching it.

I believe that either a bare wire or a green wire is allowed. However no other colors. That was the case ~6 years ago when I checked the NEC.

Bare is allowed depending.

It is only required to be "primarily green". So the common alternative of green with yellow stripe is also allowed.

You can reidentify black cable if it's large enough gauge (6 awg currently).

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#297

Post by skyper123 »

Filligree wrote: post #165
nemo44x wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally (in the USA) if you touch something in your home, you need to bring it up to code. You touch a wall, well now you need to make sure that wall has a socket in it, for example. Doing an addition? Well, now you need to ensure the entire house has fire/C02 detectors wired together with it.

> Generally (in the USA) if you touch something in your home, you need to bring it up to code. You touch a wall, well now you need to make sure that wall has a socket in it, for example. Sorry, is there a requirement that every single wall should have a socket? ...that's what extension cords are for.

Every wall more than 24 inch in size needs an outlet, and for longer walls you need an outlet every 12 feet.

In a kitchen scenario, every counter top more than a foot needs an outlet and for longer counter top runs you need one every 4 feet.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#298

Post by jrockway »

techie128 wrote: post #280
chaosite wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if the power shuts off and that saves me from electrocuting myself, I couldn't care less how much of the rest of the house lost power. The annoying part is when I plug in some faulty device that is not immediately dangerous and that shuts down power to the whole house.

> The annoying part is when I plug in some faulty device that is not immediately dangerous Do you mind, re-reading that statement? I don't even understand that argument. You should not be plugging in faulty devices in the first place...

I guess you don't know if it's faulty until you try to use it. Manufacturing defects are a thing, but kind of a once every 30 years type thing, so maybe not a big deal to worry about. The reason you install circuit breakers and AFCIs is to avoid a fire in these cases; rare, but worthwhile to avoid.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#300

Post by danans »

nemo44x wrote: post #160
danans wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my wife won't accept an ordinary electric range She's right. Induction has the speed and response of a gas cooktop with the precision a resistance electric cooktop. > and an electric water heater. Make sure it's a heat pump water heater if efficiency and operating cost matter to you.

Precision makes no sense for a pan and is something a person who doesn't actually cook would care about. Your pans change temperature when cold food is put into them. Anyone who cooks knows that you are changing the temperature on your cooking surface constantly in many applications and it's based on the visual and audio queues your food give you. At no point have I thought "OK, I need to be at 400 degrees and in 1 m…

> Precision makes no sense for a pan and is something a person who doesn't actually cook would care about. Your pans change temperature when cold food is put into them. Anyone who cooks knows that you are changing the temperature on your cooking surface constantly in many applications and it's based on the visual and audio queues your food give you.

I know exactly what to expect when I set my induction stove to 8 (out of 10) and let my daily-use pan heat for 1 minute. That's the setting at which I can temper oil with dry spices without burning them.

This isn't a function of the induction element, but rather the digital controls. Naturally I adjust the setting once the cold food goes in the pan, but having a calibrated starting point for my cooking flow is pretty useful, and I cook for my family daily.

> The problem with induction is the thing it's good at (heating water quickly) isn't a useful feature.

An induction stove can heat anything quickly, not just water. And importantly it can rapidly change temperature, unlike a resistance electric stove.

> Also, copper and aluminium cookware don't work on them and they are superior materials for cooking with in many instances.

You can just use one of these:

https://www.inductioncooked.com/how-to-use-non-induction-coo...

However, I've never seen a recipe that called for a copper or aluminum pan specifically. The benefit of copper is supposed to be precision temperature control, but as you said, precise temperatures don't matter for day to day cooking.

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