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Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

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Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#291

Post by danogentili »

MrNeon wrote: post #278
danogentili wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can very well get to define what art means to me. Process is actually very easy to infer if the art is made by a human, since the emotions that are being conveyed by the humans behind the screen are displayed directly on screen. I don't deny that I might get moved by a piece of AI art, but even so, my first thought goes to what human art was used to generated this specific piece that inspired this emotion. An AI ca…

> I can very well get to define what art means to me. Never meant to say otherwise. > Process is actually very easy to infer if the art is made by a human, since the emotions that are being conveyed by the humans behind the screen are displayed directly on screen. I couldn't disagree more, unless you have some method, some mechanism I know not of you are only guessing. It is good guessing because humans are more alik…

By inferring process I do not mean guessing what exactly was the person thinking while making that piece of art, but inferring what concepts and feelings they are trying to transmit with it; good art and good stories are good precisely when their creator is good at communicating feelings and concepts.

For example, looking at some drawn art, I can pinpoint exactly what emotions the artist was trying to transmit, not necessarily by the expression of the characters but even just by how the piece itself is drawn: that's the whole point of human artistic intent.

Another reason why human intent is important for me, from my comments below: when I read an amazing story like the Iron Widow, I feel respect towards the skills of the author, excitement for her future plans for the sequel; I follow the author on twitter and maybe interact a bit, because I appreciate what that human made me feel.

This is all part of the experience for me: I can't do the same for a GPT story, because even if it was generated from multiple human stories, there is no actual human intent behind it; no one to thank, and no one to blame in case of messups: it feels like an empty shell.

It's this true emptiness that quickly made me stop playing around with GPT when I first discovered it: anything made with it feels like an empty shell to me.

Regarding legislation, I see I have struck some chords here ;). Nothing personal, but I really think the people supporting AI models are really naive in thinking any democratic government will be willing to let entire creative industries suffocate (not to mention the potential for degradation of society as a whole) just because AI models are very cool technology and human creativity is supposedly irrelevant: just look at anti-delocalization trends in politics and legislation anywhere in the world, and draw some conclusions by yourself.

Not all people are blinded by the awesomeness of a new technology, and even those who created it will realize that they too will be eventually replaced by it.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#292

Post by deely3 »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #145

Even if true, AI is just another tool and combined work of artists and AI can produce greater art than the artist alone. For example, natural world has a lot of repeated elements and hand painting each one detracts from time that could be spent on more expressive aspects of the work. Airplanes let us fly further and faster than birds, should that be avoided / considered not to be real flight just because we are getti…

> AI can produce greater art than the artist alone..

Citation needed.

> natural world has a lot of repeated elements and hand painting each one detracts from time that could be spent on more expressive aspects of the work.

Can't agree. Using these repeated elements artist can add additional level of impression for a viewer. While AI probably will use random distribution in this situation.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#293

Post by richbell »

paisawalla wrote: post #290
schwartzworld wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true of the big subreddits. I moderate a small, niche one simply because I was visiting it every day for years and then they needed a mod. I saw it as a chance to improve an online space that I liked.

This is a common pattern with all organizations, but especially charities, non-profits, or volunteer roles. At first, the work is done by those who love that cause, and commonly some combination of - the cause becomes prominent enough that there is influence or prestige associated with the role now, that it attracts power-seeking personalities - the original founders are too burnt out to care, or clueless/trusting su…

I think this is spot-on.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#294

Post by kcplate »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #261
bitwize wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common knowledge now that abstaining from politics is taking the side of the oppressor. This has the effect of giving many subreddits and other topical communities a political orientation even if politics is nominally offtopic. To give an example, it is increasingly hard to find an online knitting community that tolerates conservative viewpoints; most have followed the lead of Ravelry.

This absurd beyond belief. Knitting has precisely nothing to do with politics, so I struggle to imagine what "conservative knitting viewpoints" even are. Or liberal ones, for that matter. Cross-stitching is a tool of systemic racism? Purl stitching is inviting the illegals to tukk-urr-jurrbs? To me phrases like "abstaining from politics is taking the side of the oppressor" are just so damn American. You guys, more th…

>This absurd beyond belief. Knitting has precisely nothing to do with politics, so I struggle to imagine what "conservative knitting viewpoints" even are. Or liberal ones, for that matter. Cross-stitching is a tool of systemic racism? Purl stitching is inviting the illegals to tukk-urr-jurrbs?

Apparently politics definitely leaked into that community a few years back. I recall reading stories about it back then.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/2/25/18234950/knitting-ra...

I am not part of that community but if it behaves like almost any other online community, any accusations of racism seem to always create a backlash that lumps the conservatives leaning folks within the group to racism whether the conservative has outright committed any racism or not. There tends to be a guilt by association that seems to happen often—where if you have opinion “A” (some standard conservative opinion on some subject not directly tied to racism) you must also have opinion “B” (some fringe race-oriented opinion sometimes found in conservative circles).

So folks just stay silent and try and just knit (or focus on whatever interest of the group), afraid to disclose any political opinion in a non-political interest group for fear of the label. Then…they get called out because if there isn’t overt acknowledgement by concerned members of the “correct” political ideology. That results in the abstaining is oppression attitude. You then find these kind of communities creating rules that don’t just discourage political conversations but rules attempting to exclude people who may fall into a political viewpoint altogether.

I don’t know if it’s distinctly American, but it definitely seems to happen here a lot. To be honest, I find it all ridiculous.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#295

Post by rovolo »

jknoepfler wrote: post #215
mring33621 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"keep discussions constructive and topical." is subjective

Of course it is. That does not entail that forums moderators (myself included) are exclusively motivated by a desire to push an ideology, which was the topic at hand. Nor does "subjective" entail "ideological" unless you're going to torture the term ideology being having a useful meaning.

> Nor does "subjective" entail "ideological" unless you're going to torture the term ideology being having a useful meaning.

What is your useful definition of "ideology"? Why isn't "subjective" included in your definition? Why would including "subjective" in your definition make it less useful?

Before hearing your response, I'm going to guess that you're thinking ideologies need to be "significant" for them to be an ideology. I'm guessing you don't think that subjective opinions are ideological because you don't think they're important enough to get that label.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#296

Post by kcplate »

xeromal wrote: post #258
flumpcakes wrote: post #141

Speaking on the topic of Reddit and mods and it's power structure: In the UK Reddit has pushed a new subreddit called "HeyUK". It has turned up in the subscription feeds for some (all?) UK users automatically without the user asking for it or adding it. If you remove it from your list of subreddits the posts will still show up in your feed as "sponsored". As far as I can see this new subreddit is seeded with just cro…

Reddit has definitely started a massive push in an authoritarian direction. I actually was permanently banned from reddit last night for saying "I didn't know shooting a guy in the nuts would kill him" for spreading hatred/violence in a video game subreddit. It kind of caught me off guard.

If it doesn’t kill him, he might wish he was dead.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#298

Post by unethical_ban »

jknoepfler wrote: post #161
vikingerik wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do Reddit moderators do their work? They are paid in power. They get to decide what viewpoints are seen or not by others. That is a very compelling wage. And of course they all think they're doing a service by advancing their ideology because of course their ideology is the right one.

That's an extremely reductive claim. Can you really not think of more mundane reasons someone might find themselves moderating reddit? It's hard to imagine "ideology" being relevant to the vast majority of reddit... Do you really think the moderators of ELI5 or PeopleFuckingDying or some obscure porn reddit or whatever are primarily concerned with "ideology"? I used to help moderate a poker forum. I was a professiona…

Reddit's larger subs, particularly their political ones, are 100% content farming and ideological cults. Subs with hundreds of thousands of millions of subscribers that regurgitate twitter screenshots with timestamps removed, and where dissent is often banned. Antiwork, Latestagecapitalism, WhitePeopleTwitter, and many others.

Related, I got banned from entertainment for saying an exchange between jk Rowling and a trans person wasn't "mocking". I didn't defend her, I just called out a shitty title.

When I messaged the mods saying, in essence, "y'all are dumb and need to distinguish fact from opinion" they flagged me for harassment, which is one demerit away from a sitewide ban.

I know some mods are decent, and it's better in smaller subs with some actual purpose (city, hobby) that isn't memes, violence, porn or politics. Any of those categories, and with subs of any large size, and it gets really scummy really fast.

(Shout out to r/Texas mods for not sucking).

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#299

Post by unethical_ban »

MrMember wrote: post #206
purpleblue wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beauty of reddit is that you can create your own subreddit with your own mods and have the discourse that you want. You're not held to just sticking with the subreddits that are given to you.

Until you can't. /r/star_trek was created by people unhappy with /r/startrek and was recently banned.

Sounds like there is more to it, Daystrom institute is fine and a great alternative.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#300

Post by unethical_ban »

teekert wrote: post #18

What does it even matter how art is created? It's the same with banning ChatGPT from StackOverflow: Who cares and who notices? Art is either evoking some feeling or not and it's different for everybody. An answer on SO is either helpful or not. Who cares how it was written? ChatGPT can easily say something more helpful than me, stable diffusion can easily make something I'd rather have on my wall than Da Vinci's Mona…

We should at least have transparency in the origin of the work. I care about the human experience, not the AI experience.
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