AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

Post by anselm » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:54 PM UTC

djmips wrote: post #188

treis wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can ban them and they'll stay banned. Today they'll come back or switch to one of the other dozen accounts they post crap on. The counter argument to that is that places like Facebook are mostly not pseudonymous and a lot of crap is posted there.

And when you get banned because someone stole your key - that's going to be awesome.

There are going to be a few cases where keys are lost or stolen. It may be possible to build multi-sig wallets that allow for you to migrate an identity to a new key. What we're looking for is some kind of statistical means of trying to reduce bad actors. Even if there was no recourse for you and you were totally screwed I'm not sure it totally invalidates the concept of having a key or a mechanism for trying to remove bad actors from social discourse. You could trip and die because you wore shoes. You could get locked out of your house... bad stuff does happen - it doesn't mean we shouldn't wear shoes or have keys.

Post by anselm » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:07 PM UTC

vlovich123 wrote: post #262

throw10920 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because using technology to solve human problems rarely/never works. You're badly misunderstanding the parent post - it is not proposing a technological solution to a human problem, but a technological enforcement of a fundamentally human solution: > subjectively score every piece of content that crosses our phone against our social trust graph...can deputize our people in our extended social network to mark conten…

Given that GPT is already difficult to distinguish from a person who’s confidently wrong, how does this web of trust system solve the problem? The belief that anything will “solve” this seems naive when there’s 20+ years of proof of this being an “unsolvable” problem despite repeated technological, social, and legislative attempts. There might be a new normal established with new battlegrounds drawn and we learn to “…

Yes the improving strength of GPT is magnifying the problem but is unrelated to the solution. The solution space steps outside of examining the content of the message for truth. The solution is to sign the messages using a social trust graph; and scoring posts based on the social trust distance.

It's not a very compelling argument for me that a (very short) 20 year history of failing to solve this problem means that it cannot be solved.

I'm willing to bet you $1000.00 that this will be completely solved in 10 years. In 10 years we will know if content we consume is "fake" or "real". It may still be offensive, and harmful to gullible people - but it will all be scored as to how real it is. Real will be defined as the likelihood that the content comes from a real human being type person, as agreed upon by other persons in-between you and that person. Content one hop away from you, from a friend, will have a score of 100% real, and content many hops away will have lower score. You will probably start your day by sorting the content you consume by the likelihood that it is real.

I did actually work on PGP - and I'm willing to concede it didn't succeed. But DNS works and bitcoin works (technically). So we do use various flavors of cryptographic trust to make sure that actions in a network are "real" versus "forged".

And yes - it's true that bots can creep into a social trust graph... so yeah, it make take effort to keep pruning the weeds in the garden in a sense.

Note in some ways I'm not really trying to argue FOR crypto per se - I'm just saying that the OP should at least critique crypto if they want to make the thesis they are making. And I'm arguing that it is a big omission to gloss over the utility of crypto and the argument will be hard to make that crypto is not a significantly powerful modifier to the original thesis of the OP.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off