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What I’ve learned from users

paulgraham.com

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Re: What I’ve learned from users

#291

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

m-ee wrote: post #209
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about top 1% in the country. So buying from me would be a different experience. Maybe you landed on someone in the bottom 50%, at a bad dealership too. The owner of our dealership was a Cal grad, the sales manager was a Jewish accounting major, I had an engineering degree, my favorite coworker completed medschool but couldn't pass the MCATS, and everyone else had a degree too. When I went to work for a Penske d…

The MCAT is for admission into med school. How did they complete it without passing?

I meant some type of board exam, not mcat. Got the words mixed up.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#292

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

batch12 wrote: post #227
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about top 1% in the country. So buying from me would be a different experience. Maybe you landed on someone in the bottom 50%, at a bad dealership too. The owner of our dealership was a Cal grad, the sales manager was a Jewish accounting major, I had an engineering degree, my favorite coworker completed medschool but couldn't pass the MCATS, and everyone else had a degree too. When I went to work for a Penske d…

> the sales manager was a Jewish accounting major One of these things seems out of place when listing qualifications

He used to joke about him being Jewish as part of why he was so good with our numbers. I meant it in a good way? I guess my sales skills are a bit rusty.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#293

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

CAPSLOCKSSTUCK wrote: post #234
batch12 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the sales manager was a Jewish accounting major One of these things seems out of place when listing qualifications

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found it odd.

Car salespeople say a lot of culturally inappropriate things constantly to each other. The sales manager I mentioned constantly referenced himself being a Jewish accountant to us as a fun way to remind us he's good at his job. Somehow it stuck and I guess I forgot even positive stereotypes are now allowed.

I have to admit, the fun banter between salespeople and even management is the #1 thing I miss these days.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#294

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

PNWChris wrote: post #226
m-ee wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MCAT is for admission into med school. How did they complete it without passing?

Likely they mean one of the step exams. Med school and residency are a brutal game - the exams don’t stop till you pass the boards at or around the time you become an attending!

I appreciate that you understood exactly what I meant, giving a medschool outsider some benefit of the doubt. Yes it was one of the board exams he couldn't pass.

Others instantly assumed I was lying or exaggerating, as if I need some street cred on an anonymous 1 week old throwaway account.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#295

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #288
dboreham wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thus everyone knows exactly what the dealer is paying for the car before walking in. Myth, I think. That information (the real wholesale cost) is not public.

And hard to genuinely calculate with the Hollywood accounting that goes on with promos/rebates/incentives for the dealers themselves. How do you allocate a $x promo for selling Y cars in a month, when some of those cars were unpopular crap and others sold themselves?

Beyond even what you mentioned, there's crazy payment bonus (holdback) structures based on so many variables it really doesn't make much sense to try to figure out what a dealer paid for a car.

A dealer for example will get more back per car sold, if they have the most modern building style. (a way manufacturers entice dealerships to remodel to latest corporate recommended aesthetics/experience).

They also pay more if your dealership is stand alone. A joint VW/Audi/Porsche dealership will end up paying more for cars (getting less money back technically) than a standalone dealership.

I could go on and on about the various metrics for getting more or less rebate money back.

Would you really pay more for your car because a dealership paid more because they hadn't remodeled recently? Of course not. You compare to what others are doing and that should be enough, unless you really want to try and randomly guess just how low they might go that day and walk and try again everywhere?

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#296

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

sammalloy wrote: post #278
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #94

PGs take on why early stage VCs gain so much experience reminds me of my opinions on why car sales is the best sales experience. I sold cars for almost a decade and was pretty good at it averaging 30 cars a month. That means every year I helped people sign for $16 million of products. In the end I probably sold 3000 cars for over $100 million. (Note, I stayed in it way too long. I think most of these benefits would c…

> I think car sales is an accelerator course for interacting with, reading, and closing people. There’s a lot of truth to this, but you could easily switch out "car sales" with any other kind of client and customer interaction. When I worked closely with users many moons ago, I quickly realized that most of them weren’t getting their needs met and were super excited to have me work one on one with them, and a very sm…

Yes that's true about any sales really working, but I thought car sales was an interesting mix of volume and high dollar sales.

Obviously selling a $1M Saas enterprise contract is even higher dollars, but you probably don't get to try and close 5 of those in one day like you do in cars. You'd be lucky to get 5 in a month I assume, if not quarter.

You could get more sales practice selling items at an electronics store, but the stakes are lower than a $50k car so you won't learn the reading people part because few people totally shut down when discussing buying a stereo.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#297

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

punnerud wrote: post #213
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few franchise dealerships would ever sell a car with problems knowingly. It does happen, because people trade in cars with intermittent problems without telling the dealership. Compared to Craigslist where there is no shortage of people selling cars directly with current problems, intermittent problems, hidden problems, and massive paperwork issues that can stop you from registering the vehicle all together unti…

That’s why you always ask to take the car to a well known 3.party that don’t benefit on the sale, and check the car for you for any hidden problems. So you still can buy from Craigslist without the risk.

This only leaves the potential for massive paperwork and back due fee issues. Surprisingly common on craiglist. A spare current registration sticker gets slapped on that belongs to another vehicle of theirs, and you buy the car not knowing it has 3 years back due fees totally $1000, probably approaching $2k if it's a pickup truck (atleast in California).

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#298

Post by bluGill »

dboreham wrote: post #268
bluGill wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone checks KBB, edmunds, and all the others before buying a car. Thus everyone knows exactly what the dealer is paying for the car before walking in. Nobody is willing to leave the dealer a reasonable profit margin or the salesman a living wage. There are plenty of other dealers and nobody is loyal so odds are they won't see you again no matter how good the experience is (if you are a corporation buying for a fl…

> Thus everyone knows exactly what the dealer is paying for the car before walking in. Myth, I think. That information (the real wholesale cost) is not public.

The cost is known, dealers leak this.

As others have said things like holdbacks and incentives are not known. (And since incentives depend on number sold they can't be known) Still buyers have good information and take advantage of that.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#299

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

copperx wrote: post #258
CAPSLOCKSSTUCK wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found it odd.

Let's hope a moderator steps in.

Do we really need to moderate the fact that while listing proof of how smart and good my team was, I used Jewish accountant as a descriptor? (That I only said because he constantly joked about this himself and it just stuck with me). It was included to accent a list of positives about the groups intelligence.

If I had said we had a Polish mathematician, would that also need moderation? Or if describing how service oriented we were, I included an ex Catholic nun?

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#300

Post by grayclhn »

q-big wrote: post #290
jraby3 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t it matter what they are “selling” after work hours? I was a salesman 20+ years ago and still engage in up selling my friends. But it’s usually to get them to engage in healthy activities like working out, going for a walk, or eating healthy; or to get them to try a new experience like tasting a new food or being more honest/kind to their loved ones. Sometimes I wonder if I’m exhausting to them or they appreci…

Some people insanely detest being manipulated - even if it is for their own good (that's at least what the manipulating person claims). I personally observe this "manipulation-detesting" character trait in particular to be prevalent in hacker circles. By the way: this is also a reason that I see why so many hackers date differently from the typical population since dating is about manipulating the other side to love…

That has not been my experience of dating at all fwiw
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