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Blocking Kiwifarms

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#291

Post by bawolff »

IncRnd wrote: post #210
Icathian wrote: post #40

There were no good choices for Cloudflare here, and everyone across the internet who jams their fingers in their ears and shouts their position repeatedly is just contributing to the problem. Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current lands…

> Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current landscape. That's not what happened here. They made an appropriate decision. It's not a difficult to say, "while we have no policies that restrict lawful content, we reserve the right to not serv…

> It's not a difficult to say, "while we have no policies that restrict lawful content, we reserve the right to not service those who host and promulgate content that explicitly creates emergency threats to human life."

And if everyone did that, its the exact same as government censorship minus any sort of due process or redress ability.

There's this weird idea that government censorship is abhorent but private censorship is somehow without sin, even when the results are basically identical.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#292

Post by yamrzou »

> Hard cases make bad law. This is a hard case and we would caution anyone from seeing it as setting precedent.

OK, but you should be clear about the definition of hard cases. What exactly constitutes "an emergency threat to human life"?

Hypothetical example: Suppose you're providing DDOS protection for a website belonging to country X, that acts against the interests of your country. War erupts between the two countries, and the website plays an important role in the information warfare by propagating fake news. Would that constitute an emergency threat to human life since it helps perpetuate the war?

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#293

Post by barry-cotter »

bitwize wrote: post #33
alexb_ wrote: post #17

>Kiwifarms itself will most likely find other infrastructure that allows them to come back online, as the Daily Stormer and 8chan did themselves after we terminated them. And, even if they don't, the individuals that used the site to increasingly terrorize will feel even more isolated and attacked and may lash out further. There is real risk that by taking this action today we may have further heightened the emergenc…

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#294

Post by Acrobatic_Road »

debacle wrote: post #176

I am a free speech absolutist, but I read the Wikipedia page on this site and it seems bad. "Crimes were committed," "People lost their lives" bad. Unjustifiably bad. That said, is anyone willing to steelman this website? Could this possibly be construed as just a big misunderstanding?

The wikipedia page is not honest and completely locked down.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#295

Post by nathanaldensr »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #169
Icathian wrote: post #40

There were no good choices for Cloudflare here, and everyone across the internet who jams their fingers in their ears and shouts their position repeatedly is just contributing to the problem. Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current lands…

The problem is who defines what is hate - don't trust a govt to make that - they are the last people I would trust. We have no solution in this age - it was easy in the older days when consensus was reached within a village on what was bad for the community and you got either got tarred and feathered or thrown out.

Right. Centralization of morals and ethics simply causes mass polarization and, eventually and inevitably, war over "which side wins." Those in favor of the rational gray area will be trampled on by both sides.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#297

Post by Kalium »

IncRnd wrote: post #210
Icathian wrote: post #40

There were no good choices for Cloudflare here, and everyone across the internet who jams their fingers in their ears and shouts their position repeatedly is just contributing to the problem. Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current lands…

> Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current landscape. That's not what happened here. They made an appropriate decision. It's not a difficult to say, "while we have no policies that restrict lawful content, we reserve the right to not serv…

It's not difficult to say, but it can be difficult to live at any meaningful scale. That invites endless pressure campaigns and similarly endless accusations of acting arbitrarily, capriciously, or with insert-bias-or-agenda-here. None of those are free to handle in any responsible or timely fashion. Never mind what happens should a genuine mistake be made.

It puts the company in the same position as Facebook in regards to moderation. It's endless, expensive, and your work is never good enough. Not a desirable position for most.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#298

Post by zozbot234 »

Icathian wrote: post #40

There were no good choices for Cloudflare here, and everyone across the internet who jams their fingers in their ears and shouts their position repeatedly is just contributing to the problem. Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current lands…

Clear and present danger is not protected under free speech, and that's exactly what the OP describes.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#299

Post by _vvaw »

paulmd wrote: post #229
ffwszgf wrote: post #53

Cloudflare can do whatever it wants but I wish they were honest about it. The claim that there has been some “dangerous escalation” in the past 2 weeks is nonsense. If anything the owner has been monitoring the thread more proactively and making sure people follow the law. This is included not allowing the creation of new accounts and reminding everyone that their data will be turned over to the authorities should it…

Quoted post unavailable.

> KF started doxxing and threatening CF employees, as well as their other customers.

First I’ve heard, and I’ve followed this story closely. Do you have a source?

Sounds about as likely as KF SWATing a Republican Congresswoman and calling the police to say “it was us, Kiwi Farms” in the middle of this conflict over hosting, which is exactly what was claimed in that case.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#300

Post by rejectfinite »

darth_avocado wrote: post #14
_vvaw wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

Kiwi Farms is internet trolls taken to extreme. The harassment doesn’t stay in the virtual world. https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/15657972205318144...

Interesting how aggregating public information, mostly Twitter posts, is "weaponizing"
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