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The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

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Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#291

Post by WheatM »

jseliger wrote: post #115
jonathanstrange wrote: post #97

Yes, the situation is dire. I live in Lisbon as a foreigner for more than 12 years now. We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city. Luckily, we have an older contract that cannot be changed as easily as newer ones. I'm not thrilled by the possibility that our landlord might cancel it some day, however, e.g. for relatives to move in. Rents in t…

We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city Portugal should build more housing, which is a simple, effective solution if the rent is too damn high: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-ren... . The nice thing about indoor space is that we can make pretty much as much of it as we'd like.

No post body was provided.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#292

Post by FerociousTimes »

googlryas wrote: post #286
jonathanstrange wrote: post #97

Yes, the situation is dire. I live in Lisbon as a foreigner for more than 12 years now. We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city. Luckily, we have an older contract that cannot be changed as easily as newer ones. I'm not thrilled by the possibility that our landlord might cancel it some day, however, e.g. for relatives to move in. Rents in t…

You do have the opportunity though. I bet you could find, say, 10 likeminded people and pool your resources and get those 2 apartments. Yes, you only get 1/10th of the cut, but if it really is easy money like that, then why not do it?

Exactly, an informal REIT targeting Portuguese properties and with the rental income paying for the mortgage for your apartment.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#293

Post by [deleted] »

JoeJonathan wrote: post #264
jseliger wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city Portugal should build more housing, which is a simple, effective solution if the rent is too damn high: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-ren... . The nice thing about indoor space is that we can make pretty much as much of it as we'd like.

In what way is building more housing simple? If it were that straightforward, California (which has much more space and money) would have done it, and Californians wouldn't be moving to Portugal.

[deleted]

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#294

Post by 62951413 »

pkaye wrote: post #257
swearwolf wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a resident, what do you think was the catalyst for these changes?

A lot of people moved into the bay area for the good jobs, nice weather and nature. Once housing demand pushed above supply, prices started shooting up. Those locals whose incomes didn't grow were pushed out of their homes. The bay area is boxed in by the hills so hard to expand out. Also a lot of the land was already build up with single family homes and other low density housing a long time ago so upgrading the den…

Actually California natives have one good thing going for them. Prop 13. So if you or your parents have lived in the house for 30+ years you're likely to pay $2K in property taxes on a $1M house (annually). The lack of middle-class jobs is a whole different story.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#295

Post by megalord »

hnuser847 wrote: post #223
rr888 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the biggest reason people buy housing is that its been the best investment. The wealthiest people I know are the people that bought houses a long time back and kept leveraging up into buying more.

That's the path I'm on right now, not because I love being a landlord, but simply because it's the best investment available.

And that's exactly why are houses so damn expensive all over the world. Boom

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#296

Post by spaceman_2020 »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #97

Yes, the situation is dire. I live in Lisbon as a foreigner for more than 12 years now. We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city. Luckily, we have an older contract that cannot be changed as easily as newer ones. I'm not thrilled by the possibility that our landlord might cancel it some day, however, e.g. for relatives to move in. Rents in t…

This seems to be a problem everywhere around the world in big cities.

What’s propping all of these property prices up? Supply and demand rules don’t seem to apply at all. You might have thousands of empty apartments in a city yet the price only keeps going up.

Everything is broken, but housing is particularly broken.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#297

Post by tuatoru »

sofixa wrote: post #280
citilife wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many dislike the idea, but this is why people turn to "nationalism". If you want to decrease unemployment, you add tariffs for imports enabling more businesses to open domestically (i.e. tariffs effectively increase import costs). Similarly, you can loosen building codes to increase production of homes, limit visa duration, require citizenship for home ownership, etc. Those are some obvious fixes, why is the governme…

Basically all of what you said is empty populist propaganda that doesn't pass a basic sniff test. You're painting the EU as the bad guy with a broad brush and it's just total nonsense. * depends on how you define "high" levels of migration, but few EU countries fit that. Portugal does, because they explicitly encourage it. Why? Nothing to do with the EU, they're trying to fight negative population growth. * social pr…

Yeah, facts. Demographics explains most of what's going on.

Portugal's working age population is declining[1] while its 60-plus population is increasing.[2]

Old people own most of the real estate and don't care much about workers. They also tend not to like change, which immigrants bring. So they dislike immigrants despite depending on them.

(//TODO: find papers supporting these assertions: they're factoids of the "everyone knows" type.)

1. https://population.un.org/wpp/Graphs/Probabilistic/POP/15-64...

2. https://population.un.org/wpp/Graphs/Probabilistic/POP/60plu...

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#299

Post by FerociousTimes »

citilife wrote: post #275
jonathanstrange wrote: post #97

Yes, the situation is dire. I live in Lisbon as a foreigner for more than 12 years now. We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city. Luckily, we have an older contract that cannot be changed as easily as newer ones. I'm not thrilled by the possibility that our landlord might cancel it some day, however, e.g. for relatives to move in. Rents in t…

Many dislike the idea, but this is why people turn to "nationalism". If you want to decrease unemployment, you add tariffs for imports enabling more businesses to open domestically (i.e. tariffs effectively increase import costs). Similarly, you can loosen building codes to increase production of homes, limit visa duration, require citizenship for home ownership, etc. Those are some obvious fixes, why is the governme…

Check this out, this is fresh out of the oven

Portugal eases visa rules to tackle labour shortage

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/portugal-eases-visa-rules-to-ta...

> "Portugal's unemployment rate is at 5.7%, near a record low.

Employers' confederations have been asking for the immigration rules to be streamlined, pointing to an economic situation close to full employment"

The narrative of unemployment in Portugal driving dissatisfaction across the population is very tenuous in light of these latest developments and policies

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#300

Post by WalterBright »

sofixa wrote: post #284
WalterBright wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is not the result of profits, gouging, etc. It's the result of funding the deficit by running the printing press. (Or the modern equivalent, creating debt backed by nothing.) The proof is the observation that endemic inflation only happens in countries with fiat money systems.

I'm not sure you deserve engaging, but I'll give it a try. So you're just going to ignore a war involving two of the biggest exporters of some of the main raw materials we have (foodstuffs and energy) on the planet and associated supply problems on crucial things? Not to mention a pandemic that wrecked havoc on supply lines. None of that matters, your theory goes, it's purely a monetary phenomenon, because only count…

If it was not caused by fiat money, I'd expect to see corresponding periods of deflation. Inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level. It is not a temporary spike from the fluctuations in supply&demand of goods and services.

Another way to understand it is to consider, what happens if the price of gas rises? Does that automatically put more money in your pocket to pay for it? Nope. You just have less money to spend on other things. But inflation (with a lag period) does put more money in your pocket.

> Could you share some countries with alternative money systems that aren't impacted?

Modern countries have all gone fiat. But we can look at the US from 1800-1914, which was not fiat money. There was zero net inflation in that period, while we've had endemic inflation ever since (aside from a brief period of deflation during the Depression).

> I'm not sure you deserve engaging

What I wrote is not the general opinion, though it is the opinion of economists. At least you were willing to talk about it, which is nice.

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