Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 473 posts

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#291

Post by rob74 »

ericmay wrote: post #51
BudaDude wrote: post #33

This should honestly be picked up by a larger news organization. If the US is serious about protecting Taiwan and bringing more chips to the US, Apple should be shamed for choosing Chinese profits. Imagine if Apple told Ukraine employees to label Russia on their badges.

Well, an alternative interpretation would be that Apple (like much of the world) is in a no-win situation because an assumption that they had (like much of the world) was that investment, fair trade, and bringing China into the established international organizations would result in liberalization (within reason) of China and that they'd be a full partner in global stability. The grand bargain. But instead the CCP re…

Well, Germany is now being ridiculed for thinking that investment, fair trade (e.g. buying Russian gas), and bringing Russia into the established international organizations would result in its liberalization. Actually for China the writing has been on the wall far longer than for Russia (remember Tienanmen Square?), but hey, China is a much more important economic player than Russia, so let's continue ignoring it...

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#292

Post by hunterb123 »

bell-cot wrote: post #205
hunterb123 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So OP can't shame Apple for this moral behavior because others buy Apple's product? Would you apply that same standard and does it hold up to other scenarios? If people were buying textile products from the slave trade, would you say "perhaps" when other (or the same) people shamed those industries for supporting slave labor? If people were buying nuts and fruit from exploited migrant workers, would you still be able…

OP is free to say "Shame on Apple", boycott Apple, and publicly pray for the gods to smite Apple from On High. If OP's actual interest is in discouraging such corporate behavior, then only the second of those options seems likely to accomplish anything. Re: Cotton - even if every ill-treated cotton worker suddenly became a well-treated union member, there's still the huge moral problem of how much of the Earth's scar…

First, my reply was to your retort of "perhaps" to GP's shaming of Apple. It's not perhaps, they should be shamed.

Second, I was talking about the textile industry both in the past and today, ie: the transatlantic slave trade and Ughyur slave labor in China today.

Sometimes you can't boycott because the entire industry is doing the morally corrupt thing.

I and many people I know avoid Chinese products, but sometimes it's impossible. At the same time we can also voice our concern.

There's not much a normal person can do other than boycott and protest, and I'm suggesting both. You're suggesting only one.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#293

Post by [deleted] »

BudaDude wrote: post #33

This should honestly be picked up by a larger news organization. If the US is serious about protecting Taiwan and bringing more chips to the US, Apple should be shamed for choosing Chinese profits. Imagine if Apple told Ukraine employees to label Russia on their badges.

[deleted]

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#295

Post by josephcsible »

ericmay wrote: post #288
rurp wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a large amount of products consumers don't have a choice, or it's hard to know. Many products simply aren't made in western countries any more because the work was all shipped overseas, regardless of what the average citizen wanted. I would bet that many shoppers buying products fullfilled by Amazon, an American company, don't realize that they are buying from China 99% of the time.

I think there are a number of American-made or western-made products on the market. Everything from plates and dishes from Costa Nova to barbells from Rogue Fitness to honey from apiaries in Pennsylvannia. I’m not sure but I think Patagonia produces a lot of their clothing outside of China as well. An iPhone? Not so much today, but that doesn’t have to be true forever. I think the case is that most people don’t actua…

> most people can’t be bothered to look at the origin of the products they’re buying

Isn't the problem that online sellers (e.g., Amazon) usually don't tell you this on the website, so you have no way of finding out until it arrives?

> But cheaper than a gallon of milk from a farmer nearby?

This is only true because the government holds the price of milk artificially high.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#296

Post by geodel »

the_duke wrote: post #87
ericmay wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, an alternative interpretation would be that Apple (like much of the world) is in a no-win situation because an assumption that they had (like much of the world) was that investment, fair trade, and bringing China into the established international organizations would result in liberalization (within reason) of China and that they'd be a full partner in global stability. The grand bargain. But instead the CCP re…

Alternative view: Apple has spent many years happily profiting from cheap Chinese manufacturing, labor, electrial engineering expertise and supply chains to the point where they are now completely beholden to a foreign country. A country whose increasing rivalry with the US in economic power and geopolitical influence (along with increased tensions) has been clear for well over a decade. Apple is diversifying a bit i…

Another thing to note is China is not just producer but huge consumer of Apple products. India with its rather small population of folks who can really afford Apple products, and primitive manufacturing capabilities at scale compare to China is going to remain minor distraction for at least couple of decades.

So sensible diversification is in distant future than many imagine.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#297

Post by ericmay »

Apocryphon wrote: post #215
ericmay wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can enact regulation (which takes time, and which I support) and also buy things that aren't made in China right now. This same thing applies to environmental considerations as well. You don't need to wait for the government to ban plastic bags for you to stop using them. Both can happen together.

Such regulation doesn't just take time, it's basically politically unfeasible given how both entrenched interests (businesses) and the individual voter are incentivized towards cost-savings. It's essentially like calling for raising taxes- not literally impossible, but virtually so. You're setting up an ethical dilemma that is always going to default to one direction, and castigating those who don't go the impossible…

So all you’re telling me is “you have no options, there’s nothing that can be done, and nothing will change”. What’s the point of that? If that’s the case why bother caring?

If it’s politically impossible to do something that’s all the more reason for personal change. Sure you can’t buy a MacBook that isn’t made in China, but you can spend more money and buy other things made outside of China.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#298

Post by peoplefromibiza »

galdosdi wrote: post #284
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is a Sovereign Country, recognised by UN, Taiwan is not and technically it's still China. In the case of Apple though, they should have put "made in China" on their iPhones, because that's where they were made (even in the case that the two Chinas situation is recognized by International institutions) edit: apparently stating the obvious deserves downvotes here, I still don't know if it's Russians offended by…

Taiwan is a sovereign country by definition. Sovereignty is something you observe, not something you declare. A regime that is successfully able to maintain control of its territory and prevent its territory from being controlled by anyone else, for a n indefinite period of time, is by definition sovereign. That is what sovereignty is. Taiwan's regime has been able to control its territory for decades. PRC can claim…

> Taiwan is a sovereign country by definition.

There is nothing "by definition" when talking about the legality of sovereignty of countries.

Is Palestine a sovereign State, if "it is by definition"?

> Sovereignty is something you observe, not something you declare

You are confusing sovereignty (or trying to confuse the readers on purpose) with being a recognized sovereign country, which is a legal construct, we have developed International legal frameworks for that, we enforce them, using the force if necessary, or I could declare the land where my house is built upon "a sovereign country".

I clearly can't, can I?

If China attacks Taiwan, technically it's not really an invasion.

It makes a big difference.

> Taiwan's regime has been able to control its territory for decades

So has done Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

edit: technically the Taiwanese one is not a regime, it's an elected government.

> Just a little English vocabulary lesson!

maybe you should focus more on "text comprehension" than on the vocabulary.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#299

Post by Apocryphon »

ericmay wrote: post #297
Apocryphon wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such regulation doesn't just take time, it's basically politically unfeasible given how both entrenched interests (businesses) and the individual voter are incentivized towards cost-savings. It's essentially like calling for raising taxes- not literally impossible, but virtually so. You're setting up an ethical dilemma that is always going to default to one direction, and castigating those who don't go the impossible…

So all you’re telling me is “you have no options, there’s nothing that can be done, and nothing will change”. What’s the point of that? If that’s the case why bother caring? If it’s politically impossible to do something that’s all the more reason for personal change. Sure you can’t buy a MacBook that isn’t made in China, but you can spend more money and buy other things made outside of China.

> If that’s the case why bother caring?

I don't know, you're the one who started with the "And basically everyone here is choosing cheaper Chinese goods so we're all complicit too" defeatism in the first place! And then turning around and condemning people for buying Chinese goods when 1) legislation for reducing trade dependence on China is very difficult, leading to 2) few consumer choices that have non-Chinese made alternatives in many product areas.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#300

Post by _-david-_ »

miles wrote: post #270
skoskie wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And basically everyone here is choosing cheaper Chinese goods so we're all complicit too. The only way to not be complicit is to not have a phone. China makes them all.

> The only way to not be complicit is to not have a phone. China makes them all. Not exactly: Librem 5 USA: "The Freedom and Privacy of the Librem 5, plus Made in the USA Electronics with a Secure Supply Chain." https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/ "If you want a smartphone built outside China and the walled gardens of Google and Apple, Purism's Librem 5 USA may be for you." https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/07/i…

>Librem 5 USA

The problem is that it is $2000 and doesn't even run Android. The usability of a non-android Linux on a phone is just not there yet.

Post reply on HN