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Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

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Re: Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

#291
post #147
post #18

Obviously, I’ll wait and see once it comes out. But it seems odd to spend so much and not have a single established creator that has put out great content. And not to involve Jackson seems off because even having him in a consulting role would be a good sign. Looking at the imdb page this seems like a corporate driven project rather than a creator driven project with lots of different directors that haven’t don’t any…

> And not to involve Jackson seems off Personally, the more I reflect on the Jackson series, the less I'm a fan. He borrowed heavily from the pacing, framing, and selectiveness of Bakshi's animated film, which didn't finish the trilogy. But worse, though inevitable when you have billions of $$ in your eyeballs, Jackson over-printed a lot of kids' imaginations with his depictions. I can't remember what I thought thing…

To me The Hobbit book was interesting in that it clearly was a link between fairy tales and what we now call the fantasy genre. Even in terms of writing style. It makes sense that that would have to be adjusted for the movie, especially since you'd want continuity in tone with the LOTR movies.

Re: Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point: We (GP and I) don't think you need known actors. There are great series with (then) unknown actors. It's just strange to have such a massive budget (which usually would go, in part, to known actors and directors) and then forgo them. Also, for directors, there's definitely a case to be made that you need someone who can handle such a large budget. That's why I made the example with the junio…

Yes, some of the best titles have none or just 1 top tier actor at the time: Star Wars (Alec Guinness), West World (Anthony Hopkins), Game of Thrones (Sean Bean), Breaking Bad, The Wire. I'm sure there's other's I can't remember. Some directors prefer fresh actors for some movies. It s not necessarily a red flag, but it could be. Time will tell.

In Star Wars, Peter Cushing was also a top tier actor, but his character (Grand Moff Tarkin) was admittedly a rather small role. And James Earl Jones was also rather well known, but maybe doesn't count because he was just voice acting for Vader (who was physically played by the body builder David Prowse).

Re: Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

#293
post #133
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christopher Tolkein was hopelessly grumpy (or protective, depending on your perspective) about anyone doing anything with his father's works. Personally, as a fan of Tolkein's works, I thought LoTR was fine . I didn't necessarily agree with all of Jackon's decisions, but, in the end, I enjoyed watching the movies (and still do). The Hobbit films are a different beast, for sure.

I didn't necessarily agree with all of Jackon's decisions, but, in the end, I enjoyed watching the movies (and still do). The Hobbit films are a different beast, for sure. Exactly my opinion as well. What worries me is that we saw what ten years of market shift did between LotR and The Hobbit. Now it's been another ten years of it. Instead of showing bad people tearing down trees to fuel industry, we're going to have…

Oh gods no I ... I can see this happening, it's just too plausible.

Re: Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

#294

After Wheel of Time my expectations are so incredibly low, if it still manages to disappoint I will be impressed. I'm expecting a shitshow and a shitstorm of epic proportions.

I think we all would benefit from a 10 year moratorium on taking on epic legacy cultural icons by the current US media and entertainment crowd.

Re: Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

#295
There must be some level of tax strategy across these streaming platforms to get a video series to pay for a buildout of IT infrastructure that then gets added to its general AWS service (or iCloud etc). Many US states have wildly generous film tax credits, so it’s almost conning these states into footing the bill for the next AWS data center. (Edit: NZ is paying 25% into this project as an economic and tourism generator)

As others have pointed out, this is a lot of money for a series without recognizable names, so potentially the true cost of production is a very overpriced contract for digital services. The article cites “expensive costumes and elaborate sets” as a cost driver, I guess we will have to wait and see, but that seems like a cover.

To quote Arrested Development, “It’s one banana, Michael! What could it cost, $10?”

Nonetheless, exciting to see an updated and hopefully more approachable journey into Middle Earth. I love LOTR, but cannot get my family excited to hunker down for a 3+ hour movie compared to watching 1hr chunks of tv series.

Re: Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

#296
This is going to be a disaster, Like GoT Season 8 level diaster. Mark my words. My reasoning:

1. The budget for the original LOTR trilogy was $281 million [1]. Obviously there's inflation but we're also talking film vs TV. Films tend to be much more expensive to produce to the point where only theatrical releases tend to make films economical;

2. The showrunners are JD Vance and Patrick McKay. If you check their IMDB profiles they have almost no credits. How on Earth did they get this job? To put this in context: films are run by directors. Producers work for the director. TV shows are run by showrunners, which are really producers. Directors work for the producers. There's good reason for this. The showrunners need to maintain consistency across the entire season while individual episode directors will manage the schedule for their own episode.

Producers are writers and you'd expect that any producer has a long list of writing credits and a premium TV showrunner will have lots of producer and writer credits.

3. No name recognition in the actors that I can see. There's nothing wrong with eelvating talented no name actors but you need to pepper in some name recognition. It builds hype and recognized actors tend to be recognized for a reason. GoT had Sean Bean and Peter Dinklage. There were also seasoned actors who just weren't well known (eg Lena Headley);

4. A lot of shows go downhill when they run out of original material. It happened to GoT in apsectacular fashion. It happened to the Handmaid's Tale (the book only covered Season 1). It takes a strong writing team to generate good original material. Being in Middle Earth is both a blessing and a curse. There is source material like the Silmarillion but that can also hamstring you in a way that greenfield writing isn't.

5. Statements made suggest the showrunners and Amazon just don't get the tone of Middle Earth, like they were trying to make GoT in Middle Earth. Not everything has to be GoT. Jackson understood LOTR. It's why his vision was so good.

6. Spinoffs are hard. The most successful spinoffs are organic. Frasier (from Cheers) and Better Caul Saul (from Breaking Bad) spring to mind. Both came from a successfully developed character that was proven to audiences and thus also had inbuilt interest. HBO is busy throwing mud at the wall to see if any GoT spinoff will stick. Even now I'm not sure HBO has any idea of how badly D&D shit the bed with GoT season 8. It undermined the interest in earlier seasons and nobody talks about GoT now. In seasons 3-5 they were actually showing episodes in theaters (even IMAX theaters). Think about that. Nobody cares about these spinoffs and D&D are a big part of why. But they're also not organic.

If you want to see what happens without strong leadership and understanding the source material, look at the Hobbit (yes Jackson was involved but he came in very late).

Amazon has committed $1 billion to this and I believe they are obligated to produce at least 5 seasons. I predict we'll see 2 or even 3 different showrunners in that time and the whole thing will likely be incoherent. Look at American Gods Season 1 to 2 or the downfall of The Walking Dead for just how much this can doom a project.

[1]: https://www.indiewire.com/2019/04/elijah-wood-lord-of-the-ri...

Re: Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

#297
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tolkien created a lot of content, an entire fantasy universe. With good storytelling there's a lot more to tell. If Star Wars, which let's be frank here, is a 2 bit creation compared to Tolkien's works, managed to become a multi billion dollar franchise, then the LotR world should be able to do the same, if it's managed wisely.

But then Star Wars was envisaged as a series of films and the sequels and prequels are part of a directly related story with overlapping characters and pacing, with the original creators around to give it their blessing and the occasional bit of creative input. Fans can overlook a lot of shoddiness to see C3PO again or how Darth became Darth. The forging of rings or founding of Rivendell, not so much, and I think the…

Them not doing Silmarillion is odd....

I mean that had some very textual readings that would have been easily loved by the woke crowd. (The Beren storyline, overall strength of female heroes during the narrative)

Re: Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

#298
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a huge ASOIAF fan, I had the same concerns after Game of Thrones was announced and first details were shared. The crucial difference, though, is that GRRM himself was involved in the series.

And we all know how it ended once they ran out of his material. Yes, I'm still salty.

I’m salty too. As soon as season 6 was released you could tell it was pure fly by your pants nonsense that had no integrity and catered to the lowest denominator.

Re: Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

#299
This is going to be terrible. I can't imagine the SHEER FUCKING HUBRIS modern TV writers must have of they think they can write a fanfic that stands next to Tolkien's greatest work.

These writers' only experience is working on a 4th film in JJ Abrams' Star Trek reboot universe which ended up getting cancelled too.

Re: Amazon spending $465M on season 1 of The Lord of the Rings series

#300
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we all know how it ended once they ran out of his material. Yes, I'm still salty.

I never even bothered with Season 8.

It was even before then. Season 6 was absolutely terrible and the storylines made no sense from that point on.
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