40% of Google users now connect via IPv6 • Hacker News Board

Re: 40% of Google users now connect via IPv6

#291

Post by Xeoncross » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 11:19 PM UTC

NelsonMinar wrote: post #109

ineedasername wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I fill out 10x as many CAPTCHAs This a feature, not a bug. You can now identify a traffic light on a subconscious level 3x further away than the average driver that has an assigned IPv4. Where average drivers hesitate upon seeing a yellow light, wondering if they have enough time to go or not, you just know that a slight uptick in speed will get you through the intersection right as that yellow flashes over to red.

The downside is every time I don't identify one of the squares containing a bicycle, somewhere a self-driving car claims another victim.

shoot! now you tell me

Re: 40% of Google users now connect via IPv6

#292

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 11:55 PM UTC

xxpor wrote: post #153

oxplot wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All your criticism is valid in the long run but right now, SpaceX'es focus is to scale up, focus on usability for majority of its customers and become profitable. Removing any unnecessary feature is a must in order to reduce risk.

CGNAT itself is a enormous risk. It's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more complex and unstable than v6.

[deleted]

Re: 40% of Google users now connect via IPv6

#293

Post by notriddle » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 11:56 PM UTC

oxplot wrote: post #164

xxpor wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CGNAT itself is a enormous risk. It's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more complex and unstable than v6.

> CGNAT itself is a enormous risk. How? IPv6 isn't a substitution for CGNAT, it's an addition to it. You either have to keep CGNAT or replace it with dedicated IPv4 for each customer. Dedicated IPv4 is most likely too costly given the limited availability. SpaceX is also trying to cut cost aggressively.

It’s stateful.

Specifically, if a plain router stops working, BGP will route around it, and all you did was drop packets. If NAT stops working, you don’t just drop packets, you drop whole connections. Applications don’t tend to tolerate dropped connections as well as they tolerate dropped packets.

Re: 40% of Google users now connect via IPv6

#294

Post by nemothekid » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 12:06 AM UTC

TekMol wrote: post #197

mgbmtl wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sooner or later, you will have to support IPv6. May as well slowly start testing bits and pieces, and avoid doing it in a rush later on.

I'm not sure I will have to. So far, nobody said IPv4 will be turned off. Maybe it will work for another 1000 years? Railroads have been around for over 2000 years and are still going strong. Despite cars and planes. Postal service has been going on for 4000 years. Since the times of the pharaohs! And It's still going strong, too. Despite phone, email and WhatsApp.

>I'm not sure I will have to.

It's less likely that you will do so at a "customer" request, rather it will be ISP/Hosting provider that will start to charge you evermore increasing fees to rent your IP address. The the Ipv4 space gets more competitive you will see the fees for routable IPv4 address go up; and conveniently there will be "discounts" to go ipv6. That's when I imagine most businesses will make the switch.

Re: 40% of Google users now connect via IPv6

#295

Post by urthor » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 12:11 AM UTC

NelsonMinar wrote: post #35

I sure wish Starlink supported IPv6. They're a brand new ISP planning for millions of customers and decided from the start they couldn't get enough IPv4 addresses for everyone. Fair enough! But we're stuck with Carrier Grade NAT and it is a drag. On Starlink it's impossible to host a server socket directly, which makes any peer to peer networking a PITA. Geocoding IP addresses doesn't work so I have to bend over back…

Waiiiiiiit, it's NAT causing the bloody captchas.

Bugger this. I've had enough of the captcha storm.

Re: 40% of Google users now connect via IPv6

#296

Post by alexb_ » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 12:36 AM UTC

i_have_an_idea wrote: post #284

drdaeman wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so that's how Elon is now training his autopilot? :)

Tesla are paying for labellers, aka Data Annotation Specialists: https://www.tesla.com/careers/search/job/data-annotation-spe... But, I would be surprised if they don't also use 3rd party labelled data sets.

Wasn't it just in the news that they are firing a ton of these?

Re: 40% of Google users now connect via IPv6

#297

Post by NelsonMinar » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 12:38 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #181

p1mrx wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a non-residential IP address is likely to get you blocked from services like Netflix. It would be nice if there were some way to decouple connectivity from addressing, without becoming a second-class citizen of the internet.

A good way is to refuse to give money to such services, which being unable to access them, dovetails nicely. Incidentally this also makes torrenting safe, and everything on Netflix can be downloaded via BitTorrent.

That's an interesting point. I wonder what Starlink is doing with any DMCA complaints aimed at IP address traffic.

Re: 40% of Google users now connect via IPv6

#298

Post by lmm » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 1:07 AM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #237

kazen44 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

compared to rolling out IPv6? definitely, especially on the longer term. For instance, most Core/Edge routers (my experience is mainly with juniper MX series, but i assume the model is roughly the same for other vendors), you need specific licenses or interface card's to do stateful services like NAT. Compared to doing IPv6, which is "just forwarding packets" and doesn't require the hardware to track state in nearly…

You’re presenting a false dichotomy. The choice for an ISP today is not “v4 or v6”, it’s either “v4 or v4+v6”. A v6 only connection in the US is unusable.

CGNAT is just a slightly more fiddly version of DS-Lite (and frankly at this stage your internal network is either v6 or an ad-hoc informally-specified bug-ridden implementation of half of it). You're always going to have to do messy connection tracking stuff with connections going to v4-only sites, the only question is whether you want to do it for connections to v6-enabled sites as well or not.

Re: 40% of Google users now connect via IPv6

#299

Post by i_have_an_idea » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 1:09 AM UTC

alexb_ wrote: post #296

i_have_an_idea wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla are paying for labellers, aka Data Annotation Specialists: https://www.tesla.com/careers/search/job/data-annotation-spe... But, I would be surprised if they don't also use 3rd party labelled data sets.

Wasn't it just in the news that they are firing a ton of these?

Yes! That's how I actually found out they have them.

Re: 40% of Google users now connect via IPv6

#300

Post by lmm » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 1:12 AM UTC

oarsinsync wrote: post #259

phpisthebest wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When all the big services become IPv6, the number of IPv4 megabits will become small. Well I have been hearing about the end of IPv4, and IP exhaustion for about 20 years now, and I fully expect people to still being moaning about it 20+ years from now while the majority of the interment still communicates over ipv4

Amen. I dual stacked my home network 10 years ago. 5 years ago I joined an ISP that gave me CGNATv4 and IPv6 and I opted to disable IPv6 at the router.

Why? If you have an IPv4 address, even a dynamic one, then IPv6 may not offer you a lot of practical benefit, but CGNAT-only sucks if you're at all technical.