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The SQLite Code of Ethics

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Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#291

Post by mechanical_bear »

tootie wrote: post #224
smoe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The founder of SQLite and all current developers have pledged to follow the spirit of The Rule to the best of their ability. Sure, as far as I'm aware code of conducts/ethics only ever apply to contributors, no-one has beliefs being forced upon them. But that seems to be about the highest bar of entry for an interested developer I have seen in any project. Not waving pitchforks here, I'm fine with them having this…

I'm not sure what their organization is exactly but a private company isn't allowed to force a religious test on employees. I think it doesn't apply to an open source project but I sure don't like it. It's exclusionary.

Then don’t use it. Here’s your refund:

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#292

Post by thrown_22 »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #271
thrown_22 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't. Which is why it gave us Linux.

Wait, what gave us Linux? An unwelcoming culture of mockery and derision?! If so I'd argue Linux succeeded in spite of Linus's prickly personality. Certainly not because of it.

There are a dozen open source kernels yet only one succeeded.

It was absolutely Linus's no bullshit policy that made it a success and a target.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#293

Post by Tao3300 »

doctor_eval wrote: post #248
Tao3300 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Speech that singles other people or groups out for different treatment or is otherwise racist, sexist, etc is intolerant. I think most people can get on board with that. The trouble comes when people start berating others for using words/phrases like blacklist, sanity check, backlog grooming, master, and spaz - just to name a few. 99.9% of people who use these words do not possess the mens rea of bigotry or intoler…

I’m glad you think most people would agree with me, but your follow up example seems a bit unfortunate. You might not believe that language affects thought or behaviour, but saying so directly might arguably be a better way of making your point than singling out others who disagree with you.

I'm not sure what any of that is supposed to mean. You might be conflating my comments with someone else's because I'm not singling out anyone. Unless you're chafed at my use of your own words -- I assure you, it was meant as a kind word of caution and not as mockery.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#294

Post by Natsu »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #146
fooey wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paradox of Tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance > The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.

Sounds like a license to be intolerant, if only you can convince people that your opponents were intolerant first.

The paradox of tolerance was aimed at those who would with "fists or pistols" prevent others from sharing their views and was premised on the right of self-defense.

In historical context, it's seems squarely aimed at the paramilitary organizations of various movements popular around the 1930s or so who physically injured people for saying things they disliked.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#295

Post by Natsu »

KMag wrote: post #268
lsh123 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I wouldn't say National Socialism was purely left. It was economically extremely left-leaning and most of their social policies were extremely right-leaning. (Though, racism knows no political bounds... Stalin also practiced genocidal policies.) It's true that Hitler thought the US's free market economy was a Jewish ideal, and he thought the economic free market incentives (in the form of huge government contracts) w…

I mean, the economics of National Socialism aren't what people usually hate about it, they hate the authoritarianism where you were either their kind of socialist or they would beat you up and cast you out of society, even if you were some other stripe of socialist.

So they became nearly universally hated by fighting anyone who wasn't one of them.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#296

Post by ARandomerDude »

kibwen wrote: post #243
generalizations wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> the developers are saying "we will treat you this way regardless of how you treat us" > in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance I have a lot more respect for people whose ethics are not conditional on the behavior of others.

I find that somewhat short-sighted. Let's use a different example. Imagine you live in a society that allows personal gun ownership. Obviously, in such a society you still don't want people running around shooting each other willy-nilly, so you make a law: shoot someone, go to jail. Now imagine someone pulls out a gun and shoots you. Result: you're dead, they go to jail. However, you'd really prefer not to be dead. S…

There's a 99.9% chance [1] any comment this long is tinfoil hat level crazy.

1. I've been on the internet.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#297

Post by rayiner »

woodruffw wrote: post #270
rayiner wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People misconstrue this idea. Popper is talking about people who respond to debate with “answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.” It’s about not tolerating people who make it impossible to have debate, not declaring arbitrary sets of views intolerable or beyond the pale.

This is a misquotation. The entire quotation from Open Society is: > But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of…

The whole paragraph makes it even clearer that he’s talking about people who would shut down free debate, starting with “denouncing all argument.” He’s actually talking about how progressives are today—ranging from declaring some topics beyond debate to “punch a Nazi.”

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#298

Post by Kranar »

kibwen wrote: post #243
generalizations wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> the developers are saying "we will treat you this way regardless of how you treat us" > in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance I have a lot more respect for people whose ethics are not conditional on the behavior of others.

I find that somewhat short-sighted. Let's use a different example. Imagine you live in a society that allows personal gun ownership. Obviously, in such a society you still don't want people running around shooting each other willy-nilly, so you make a law: shoot someone, go to jail. Now imagine someone pulls out a gun and shoots you. Result: you're dead, they go to jail. However, you'd really prefer not to be dead. S…

I downvoted it because I don't think most people need to read 7 paragraphs of an awkward strawman to understand the concept of self-defense.

Your example really has nothing to do with the paradox of tolerance or the idea of ethics being independent of the actions of others.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#299

Post by wyager »

don-code wrote: post #101
wyager wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If software engineering was available as a monastic vocation, we'd probably have a lot of significantly higher-quality software available. I would much rather use something written by a stylite with an esolang compiler than shat out by 100 poorly-coordinated javascript devs at MEGACORP.

You may enjoy reading Neal Stephenson's _Anathem_.

I certainly did!

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#300

Post by rebeccaskinner »

logifail wrote: post #113
thaneross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but notice the contrast with the popular, Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct, which makes it abundantly clear its aim to enforce a set of beliefs on its contributors, with no boundaries between professional and personal life.

> a set of beliefs The elephant in the room in many current attempts to encourage "diversity" is that a genuinely diverse range of opinions and/or beliefs ends up being not welcome at all.

Let’s be blunt, when people complain about lack of a diversity of thought/opinion, it’s almost always a complaint that they can’t be a bigot. Of course nobody says that so directly- they use dog whistles so that people who are being attacked know to leave while the bigots retain a veinier of civility so they can radicalize others by saying “look how hostile and irrational that group got over my innocuous sounding statement.”

Maybe you think spaces would be better if we allowed unmoderated bigotry in the name of free speech, but a practical consequence is that when the bigots move in, the people that they are targeting go away. The end result isn’t “diversity of thought” and it was never intended to be- it just ends up being one more space where people get bullied into leaving.

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