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Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

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Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#291

Post by usrn »

ceejayoz wrote: post #219
BitwiseFool wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Let's be clear; the title was "Always Punch Nazis", not "Always Punch Conservatives". If you're mixing the two up, that's more on you than the author." I've definitely noticed an overlap between the kinds of folks who want society to embrace and normalize violence against "Nazis" and the kinds of folks who go around accusing opponents of Nazism with little to no restraint. Edit: I'm struggling to articulate this, b…

> I've definitely noticed an overlap between the kinds of folks who want society to embrace and normalize violence against "Nazis"... C'mon. Beating up and killing Nazis has been a core part of American culture for 80 years or so. Comics, video games, movies. Is Inglorious Basterds anti-conservative? Is Captain America?

More communists than Nazis although we've forgotten about that unfortunately.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#292

Post by joshuamorton »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #278
slg wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anyone can call anyone a criminal . The question is whether someone can make an individual determination that they think another person is a criminal , and whether this is a legitimate moral defense of extra judicial violence. Do individuals or groups have a moral right to judge others and carryout violence outside of the legal system That is basically all comic books. Why are you criticizing this one and not like B…

Being a Nazi isn't criminal, and I don't have a dog in this fight. I was just pointing out why the comic was controversial. I don't think it should be illegal to print, but can see how Kickstarter employees could see it as advocating violence in the context of it's name and origin. I think employees would be similarly outraged if someone was crowd funding a comic called "how to mow down leftists" after the Charlottes…

No see I really want to press you on this, because I want to hear how a theoretical stance in support of violence against unarmed, peaceful protestors (Charlottesville) is equivalent to support of violence against violent armed people who more often than not are the ones initiating the violence.

One of those could maybe be called vigilantism. The other isn't, its terrorism.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#293

Post by joshuamorton »

busterarm wrote: post #185
toomuchtodo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy needs no apologies. You are denied choices everyday because society and government have agreed upon those choices. There will always be those upset because they feel their rights are infringed upon.

And the right to determine the terms with with you negotiate away your labor is among the most sacred. Letting others do that for you is much closer to indentured servitude or slavery. The problem with all of these collectivsts' arguments is that they all believe themselves to be in their utopia's social planning committee rather than themselves a laborer. And that's if they made it past the "shoot all the troublemak…

You're free to work at a non-unionized company, of course, or even found your own.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#294

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

busterarm wrote: post #289
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, with polite response: a lot of these points are ethically dubious and at best say “they’re well paid, so they don’t really count”. At one point it says one can marry to get out of their indentured servitude, which… yikes, dude, imagine what a dangerous position that puts someone in if they can’t divorce a potentially dangerous relationship for fear of deportation.

Don't be ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of people are going to get married. More than 40% of them to someone they meet at work. That's just life. Stop interpreting things the most hyperbolic way possible. Basic statistical facts paint quite a different picture than you are.

I’m not saying that marriage itself is bad, I’m saying that being in a marriage where you cannot freely leave isn’t an alternative to a job you cannot freely leave, which is an exploitation of labor that’s over represented in tech, in response to a poster who questions why tech should be trying to defend their labor. In none of your points have you reasonably addressed the original concern, which is that exploitation of labor does exist in tech, except to argue that it’s okay because of money, or they can enter a marriage that they cannot freely leave without also risking their immigration status and that’s somehow not a concern.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#295

Post by cmeacham98 »

adam_arthur wrote: post #167
cmeacham98 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be magically appending "with a public sector union" to the real cause of the majority of MTA's problems. Sorry, but I don't buy this guilt by association: How does the union cause a significant portion of MTA's problems?

It compounds them. Government has no incentive for real results, union leads to highly overpaid employees who are frequently caught not working on the clock. Two separate problems for sure, both bad for the rest

> union leads to highly overpaid employees who are frequently caught not working on the clock

Can you demonstrate this, or provide any evidence for it at all?

The reason I ask this is because you seem to be automatically assuming Union=Bad with no reason to do so.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#296

Post by Cerium »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #269
lupire wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source: the whole economy. If someone offers X, and you want Z, and you sign a contract for Y, they are giving you Y. Do you evet give Comcast an extra $50 for fun? It's what the company supports, not what the union supports. And "performance based raises" are obviously not CoL raisesm

By this logic a minimum wage means existing no one earns more than minimum wage…?

The fact that there is a minimum wage, and that efforts to increase it are met with resistance is proof that there are many jobs for which the minimum wage is also the maximum.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#297

Post by s1artibartfast »

joshuamorton wrote: post #292
s1artibartfast wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a Nazi isn't criminal, and I don't have a dog in this fight. I was just pointing out why the comic was controversial. I don't think it should be illegal to print, but can see how Kickstarter employees could see it as advocating violence in the context of it's name and origin. I think employees would be similarly outraged if someone was crowd funding a comic called "how to mow down leftists" after the Charlottes…

No see I really want to press you on this, because I want to hear how a theoretical stance in support of violence against unarmed, peaceful protestors (Charlottesville) is equivalent to support of violence against violent armed people who more often than not are the ones initiating the violence. One of those could maybe be called vigilantism. The other isn't, its terrorism.

I won't be making that argument because I gave two examples of things that I disagree with, not one that I support.

I don't think violence is ever warranted against another non-violent person whom you have ideological differences with.

I don't think it is moral to act as an individual judge against any non-violent person and Carry Out violence.

Punching someone because you think they are a Nazi or communist is not okay

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#298

Post by TulliusCicero »

busterarm wrote: post #91
TulliusCicero wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data shows that people in unionized workplaces generally get higher pay than non-union. Perhaps it might be different in tech, where software engineers are usually already very well paid. Hard to say.

What data in what countries? In the US the overwhelming majority of union membership is in Federal employment and mandatory. That makes up 80% or more of US union employment. That leaves the usual trade unions and the film industry and in the former most places of employment are mandatory union (UPS are 100% Teamsters, for example). The whole film industry is set up where you work your way into the unions over years…

In the US: https://www.epi.org/press/union-workers-are-paid-11-2-more-a...

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#299

Post by xeromal »

softcactus wrote: post #179
xeromal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the contract, but when I worked for Kroger years ago, if I opted out of the union, I got like 2 more $ an hour but at the cost of some other benefits. I was 15 so of course I opted out for that extra cash.

Holy crap those are some insane dues! I had a similar experience working for a grocery store at that age. I am pro-union since I have seen the good it does for trades, but it seemed scummy trying to convince me to join the union as a kid who was on his parents insurance at the time and didn't need benefits.

Funny enough, the person who replied to you was wrong. I didn't get health insurance. They were dues. The benefits I mentioned were guaranteed raises that I knew I wouldn't get because I didn't plan to work there for more than a summer.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#300

Post by busterarm »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #298
busterarm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What data in what countries? In the US the overwhelming majority of union membership is in Federal employment and mandatory. That makes up 80% or more of US union employment. That leaves the usual trade unions and the film industry and in the former most places of employment are mandatory union (UPS are 100% Teamsters, for example). The whole film industry is set up where you work your way into the unions over years…

In the US: https://www.epi.org/press/union-workers-are-paid-11-2-more-a...

How about data that doesn't come directly from union activists.

It's funny the groups that claim to be non-partisan while simultanously advocating a list of positions...

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