Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

beaconcrm.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 351 posts

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#291

Post by fleddr »

paxys wrote: post #276
fleddr wrote: post #130

I've been working 4 day workweeks for well over a decade now, took the pay cut myself. As for the goal to maintain 100% productivity whilst cutting back on hours, I'm confident that they will succeed. In fact, they'll succeed in this without requiring some kind of brilliant plan, as this recalibration happens automatically. When you start working one day less, nobody will reduce your workload by 20%. You'll have the…

I'd argue that the majority of office settings don't have moments of slack, but rather moments of productivity. This same productivity can be achieved in wayy less time than the standard 40 hours/week.

I can only agree, depending on what you include in "productivity".

I'd say it's incredibly common for a modern office worker to be engaged in email, meetings and chat for some 4-6 hours per day.

Not only does this leave little time to do actual tasks, that little time is also highly fragmented across the day.

It's a point I've made repeatedly on similar threads: the problem with modern office work is too much collaboration. Pretty much we spent the vast majority of the day figuring out what to do when, instead of actually doing it.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#292

Post by fleddr »

cecilpl2 wrote: post #198
fleddr wrote: post #130

I've been working 4 day workweeks for well over a decade now, took the pay cut myself. As for the goal to maintain 100% productivity whilst cutting back on hours, I'm confident that they will succeed. In fact, they'll succeed in this without requiring some kind of brilliant plan, as this recalibration happens automatically. When you start working one day less, nobody will reduce your workload by 20%. You'll have the…

My company does max 30 minute meetings. It's great and somehow everything still gets discussed. Occasionally we run a bit long but everyone knows you can only rely on people to be there for the first 30 minutes. I'm in a Staff role with my fingers in multiple projects across several teams, and I still only have 2-3 hours of meetings a day.

Great practice. We're doing a similar thing and although these meetings sometimes run late, it's now culturally accepted that invitees just type "need to drop" and leave. When this is normalized, people learn to get to the point.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#293

Post by mattgreenrocks »

paxys wrote: post #276
fleddr wrote: post #130

I've been working 4 day workweeks for well over a decade now, took the pay cut myself. As for the goal to maintain 100% productivity whilst cutting back on hours, I'm confident that they will succeed. In fact, they'll succeed in this without requiring some kind of brilliant plan, as this recalibration happens automatically. When you start working one day less, nobody will reduce your workload by 20%. You'll have the…

I'd argue that the majority of office settings don't have moments of slack, but rather moments of productivity. This same productivity can be achieved in wayy less time than the standard 40 hours/week.

> I'd argue that the majority of office settings don't have moments of slack, but rather moments of productivity.

Absolutely. The complete lack of slack in the modern office drives a lot of my stress. I am transmuting that into an long-term win, however: it is driving me to seek flexible working arrangements, working for myself, setting up passive income streams (however small they are) and generally working less. I refuse to give my best years of my life to my work, and will work 2x as hard (for myself, obviously) to partially decouple time from income.

> This same productivity can be achieved in wayy less time than the standard 40 hours/week.

The nebulousness with which productivity is defined based on the context suggests it is not nearly as objective as some would have you think.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#294

Post by motohagiography »

Sincere question: is this 4-day work week mostly an inflation hedge?

Anticipating huge real CPI cost increases, weighed against net productivity of people working from home, is the bet that you can net the same amount of value and productivity from existing employees in a 20% shorter period, and compensate for inflation by giving them time "off" instead of spending cash on a raise?

Not cynical, just a very wise hedge. I will probably ask this on other 4-day threads, as it seems like a very economical way to retain staff at the same net productivity without paying out cost of living increases. If the economy ever finds a new equillibrium and your company is still profitable, it becomes a tempting private equity target, as they could buy it and simply remove the 4-day week compensation and reap easy growth benefits.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#295

Post by fleddr »

missedthecue wrote: post #290
fleddr wrote: post #130

I've been working 4 day workweeks for well over a decade now, took the pay cut myself. As for the goal to maintain 100% productivity whilst cutting back on hours, I'm confident that they will succeed. In fact, they'll succeed in this without requiring some kind of brilliant plan, as this recalibration happens automatically. When you start working one day less, nobody will reduce your workload by 20%. You'll have the…

If you can do your work week in 4 days without losing productivity, you don't have anywhere near enough responsibilities.

That makes no sense. I have exactly the same responsibilities as before my switch. I also have exactly the same responsibilities as my peers working 5 days. And yet I successfully squeeze those 5 days into 4, and it wasn't even that hard.

Magic? No, modern office work is incredibly ineffective. Most of the day is spent collaborating with almost no part of the day spent on actually doing things.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#296

Post by bern4444 »

4 day work weeks are clearly here to stay and a huge quality of life improvement but taking a 20% pay check reduction for it is absurd.

You are doing the same amount of work in less time, not less work. Company goals do not change, nor do their deliverables or expectations of you.

A reduction would only make sense for hourly employees (though I think the hourly rate should go up so the total weekly pay is the same) but if you are being paid full time, it should not matter how much time it takes you to complete your work.

You are paid for your knowledge, skill, and ability to deliver. You are not paid to be working a set amount of hours or days.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#297

Post by bern4444 »

switch007 wrote: post #208
krm01 wrote: post #177

I’ve mentioned this before, but when moving my team (design agency that helps B2B SaaS)to a 4-day work week, productivity increased dramatically. Most businesses can move to a 4-day work week. If you’re an employer and you read this, just give it a try for a month and measure output. Your limiting beliefs will most likely become weak opinions.

How'd you measure productivity?

Presumably the company already has indicators and metrics they use. You just continue using those same indicators and validate there is no significant change.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#298

Post by fleddr »

coldcode wrote: post #182
fleddr wrote: post #130

I've been working 4 day workweeks for well over a decade now, took the pay cut myself. As for the goal to maintain 100% productivity whilst cutting back on hours, I'm confident that they will succeed. In fact, they'll succeed in this without requiring some kind of brilliant plan, as this recalibration happens automatically. When you start working one day less, nobody will reduce your workload by 20%. You'll have the…

When I was working before my retirement I routinely had to work 60 hr weeks since I was lead (went to every meeting) and wrote code full time along with my team. Most of our projects started with a hard deadline (estimates were only used for budgeting, the time was predetermined) and constant change was endemic during every project. No way this would fit in 32 hr weeks. Yet we still had sprints (which assumed 40 hrs…

Agreed. The situation you describe is one where constraints do not exist, which is cultural. You assume input, say 40 hours (input is not productivity) and keep piling on work, responsibilities and unrealistic deadlines where workers feel forced to put in as much as 60 hours. Which is again input, not output.

Where I work, we work output-based. We work in sprints where the amount of work that can be done in a sprint is fixed, expressed as velocity. This capacity is a hard constraint and immutable (unless you hire additional people).

The business is free to spent that velocity as they please, but they have no say over velocity itself. They also have no say over input (hours) or estimates (they're not qualified to do so).

These hard constraints are a thing of beauty, it forces serious prioritization. Call me old and cynical, but in my 25 years in IT, I'd say at least 80% of what gets build is bullshit. Untested brain farts from higher-ups that have no tangible benefit to any customer or user. Hence I fail to be impressed by almost any "priority" or "deadline", exceptions aside.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#299

Post by fleddr »

jelling wrote: post #186
coldcode wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was working before my retirement I routinely had to work 60 hr weeks since I was lead (went to every meeting) and wrote code full time along with my team. Most of our projects started with a hard deadline (estimates were only used for budgeting, the time was predetermined) and constant change was endemic during every project. No way this would fit in 32 hr weeks. Yet we still had sprints (which assumed 40 hrs…

The only thing I support more than WFH is my competitors working 20% less. If they're doing this to compete for talent, go ahead by all means. I suspect they need to do something like this also because they're a UK SaaS company (so lower wages to start) serving the low-end of the non-profit market (price sensitive buyers). And they don't have the enterprise features to compete with Salesforce and CRM for the high-end…

Sad that you call your colleagues "competitors". I guess you also missed the main point of the initiative, which is to have the same productivity in one day less. So your extra day of work effectively does nothing to the bottom line.

In case it does, all power to you. I think it's fair game that when people work more, they earn more. Nothing wrong with that.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#300

Post by MockObject »

greedo wrote: post #253
MockObject wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. For someone whose experience of suits is the ill-fitting obligation for the occasional wedding or funeral, it will be shocking and unbelievable to read that a custom cut dress shirt is more comfortable than a t-shirt, and suit pants, soft and silk lined, more comfortable than jeans.

It might be shocking to realize that not all body types fit well into a suit, regardless of how well tailored it is. I used to be tall and lanky, great for a suit. Then age happened, and now I'm much more round that beanpole. Nothing fits well, and I've tried custom shirts etc. I just look like a well dressed, round person. I'm not more comfortable at all, in fact the opposite. Plop me in a pair of shorts with a t-sh…

Interesting. I've been told that the suit is so ubiquitous over history and nationalities, because it flatters older and portly gentlemen more than other items.
Post reply on HN