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Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

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Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#291

Post by DoingIsLearning »

makecheck wrote: post #138

Well whether you add “site:.edu” or not, Google still does the thing where they just spit out a pile of extra “matches” that don’t contain your search phrase AT ALL . Just thrown into the list, as if they have any business being there (oh wait, they do have business: Google’s business). Frankly, if it’s not reliable as a tool, it has no real value and I can’t believe it has come to this. Imagine if every time you ran…

> Well whether you add “site:.edu” or not, Google still does the thing where they just spit out a pile of extra “matches” that don’t contain your search phrase AT ALL

There used to be a 'verbatim' mode that would do exactly that. The quotes symbol were also a way to enforce verbatim mode.

Sadly this behaviour of "let me assume what you want" is not exclusive of google as I also now experience this on ddg.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#292

Post by timbit42 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #17
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #8

Or just use DuckDuckGo instead of google.

It's not really any better in terms of the results it serves up. If it had a filter to only show pages that didn't have cookie popups then maybe I'd look at it again.

Install the 'I Don't Care About Cookies' browser plug-in.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#293

Post by JKCalhoun »

aporetics wrote: post #287
JKCalhoun wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe they are neither vices as well, then I can see your point — they just are. Perhaps this is the point you are making: if one is data-driven and engineering-oriented without regard to the consequences, that could be seen as a vice. Despite the amazing engineering/science, it is hard to come to peace with von Braun or Teller (just to pick two examples).

Yes exactly. But until this is clear and accepted, these terms are apt to be misdirections—for example here, in a discussion trying to understand how things went so wrong at a leading tech company. Hopefully we can get to the point of putting purpose (I think “mission” is a bit too hackneyed and neat to work here) first in discussions of culture, whether corporate or engineering culture.

I think most of us want to view "engineering culture" as just problem solving, amoral. If these companies we worked for didn't have such an outsized effect on the greater world we live in that would probably be a reasonable way to view engineering culture.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#294

Post by the_snooze »

makecheck wrote: post #138

Well whether you add “site:.edu” or not, Google still does the thing where they just spit out a pile of extra “matches” that don’t contain your search phrase AT ALL . Just thrown into the list, as if they have any business being there (oh wait, they do have business: Google’s business). Frankly, if it’s not reliable as a tool, it has no real value and I can’t believe it has come to this. Imagine if every time you ran…

It's not just search. It's so much user-facing interactivity online. Stop black-box-inserting irrelevant search results. Stop black-box-modifying what I type in the document. Stop black-box-suggesting-as-I-type. Stop black-box-second-guessing what I meant.

I'm a perfectly capable human who can communicate my intent, and make corrections on my own if needed. What kind of deranged hubris must these engineers have to build systems that try to proactively act on what they think I actually meant?

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#295

Post by bentcorner »

stickfigure wrote: post #285
makecheck wrote: post #138

Well whether you add “site:.edu” or not, Google still does the thing where they just spit out a pile of extra “matches” that don’t contain your search phrase AT ALL . Just thrown into the list, as if they have any business being there (oh wait, they do have business: Google’s business). Frankly, if it’s not reliable as a tool, it has no real value and I can’t believe it has come to this. Imagine if every time you ran…

I would be willing to bet substantial sums of money that Google tracks metrics for these alternative results and has concluded that they add value to the user. Maybe not to you, but to most people. Personally, I'm ok with a bit of "oh, this is what I think you meant" rather than a literal interpretation of my query. It's not perfect but neither are my queries.

I certainly have moments where I don't quite know how to ask what I'm looking for and badly describe it in a query: e.g. "flat thing you use for cooking" - google seems to understand what I'm looking for, whereas bing/ddg guide me more towards cooking tools with the word "flat" in them.

I usually use ddg but I do find google useful for the more weird queries I have.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#296

Post by alx__ »

greybox wrote: post #70

I switched to using kagi.com a while ago, and I've never looked back. I've tried to use duckduckgo before but just ended up using '!g' most of the time. Kagi is in a whole other league. It's on par with, if not better than google search. I highly recommend it. When they introduce the paid tier I'm sure as hell going to subscribe to it. At this point I would trade my Netflix subscription for it.

Yeah I've running Kagi recently and in most areas it outshines Google.

Love how I can easily banish garbage seo-only sites from results

I appreciate how it groups results into a more compact section if they're from forums or review sites. The UX give you the ability to scan for relevant links quicker

e.g. Searching for a generic "best wireless headphones" looks like this https://i.ibb.co/GPyb6Zp/kagi-exmple.png

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#297

Post by reaperducer »

stickfigure wrote: post #285
makecheck wrote: post #138

Well whether you add “site:.edu” or not, Google still does the thing where they just spit out a pile of extra “matches” that don’t contain your search phrase AT ALL . Just thrown into the list, as if they have any business being there (oh wait, they do have business: Google’s business). Frankly, if it’s not reliable as a tool, it has no real value and I can’t believe it has come to this. Imagine if every time you ran…

I would be willing to bet substantial sums of money that Google tracks metrics for these alternative results and has concluded that they add value to the user. Maybe not to you, but to most people. Personally, I'm ok with a bit of "oh, this is what I think you meant" rather than a literal interpretation of my query. It's not perfect but neither are my queries.

has concluded that they add value to the user.

Not the user. To Google.

Marginal search results adds value for Google because it keeps people searching, which is how Google makes its money. If you find what you want, you stop feeding money into Google.

Google can do this because it has a virtual monopoly on search. If a strong competitor were to emerge, Google couldn't play these revenue optimization games, and would have to go back to being a search engine.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#298

Post by loloquwowndueo »

PaulHoule wrote: post #17
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #8

Or just use DuckDuckGo instead of google.

It's not really any better in terms of the results it serves up. If it had a filter to only show pages that didn't have cookie popups then maybe I'd look at it again.

Searching for “how to fix a flat tire” gave me good results, at least better than the crap the OP got :)

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#299

Post by bentcorner »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #58
s-video wrote: post #15

This is nitpicky but the tire changing page doesn't actually fit your rational for choosing .edu pages >Professors are paid generous salaries to share knowledge with the paying customers of the University (students). So, let’s find some paid unpaid University knowledge on how to change a tire by using our new trick! But the bottom of the page says >Prepared by: [students] For Dr. Bruce Magee's English 303 (Technical…

Does it really matter if it was a writing assignment, or a class in tire changing, provided that the information is correct?

Yes, it matters - a writing assignment would be graded on writing quality and style. I would assume the writing professor is not a tire changing expert. You're there because you don't know how to change a tire, so there's no way to know if the information is correct.

It's certainly better than nothing but there could be specific gotchas for your situation. Most common would be needing certain tools or techniques for your model of car. It'd probably be best to either look up the manual for your car online or find a youtube video for changing the tires for your model of car.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#300

Post by bobsomers »

stickfigure wrote: post #285
makecheck wrote: post #138

Well whether you add “site:.edu” or not, Google still does the thing where they just spit out a pile of extra “matches” that don’t contain your search phrase AT ALL . Just thrown into the list, as if they have any business being there (oh wait, they do have business: Google’s business). Frankly, if it’s not reliable as a tool, it has no real value and I can’t believe it has come to this. Imagine if every time you ran…

I would be willing to bet substantial sums of money that Google tracks metrics for these alternative results and has concluded that they add value to the user. Maybe not to you, but to most people. Personally, I'm ok with a bit of "oh, this is what I think you meant" rather than a literal interpretation of my query. It's not perfect but neither are my queries.

> I would be willing to bet substantial sums of money that Google tracks metrics for these alternative results and has concluded that they add value to the user.

And I would be willing to be substantial sums of money that any metrics Google has with respect to "adding value to the user" are actually more directly track "adding value to the business".

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