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How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

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Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#291

Post by imgabe »

thereare5lights wrote: post #267
imgabe wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most voters don't even care about issues, they care about parties, their team. As such, they don't care or want to incentive anything except their own team winning. Seems like the problem is the voters then. > If most people want abortion to be legal, the government can simply legalize it. Per your earlier statement, that is not what most voters want. They want their team to win.

> Seems like the problem is the voters then. Yes. That means that your claim > it's because the government (and by extension, the people it represents) want to incentivize that particular activity particularly the > (and by extension, the people it represents) is false. ---- > Per your earlier statement, that is not what most voters want. They want their team to win. False. The vast majority of people want their team…

It's not false. You're confusing stated preferences vs. revealed preferences. People might say they want to enshrine their legal right to abortion or that they don't want people to get tax breaks for investing in depressed areas, but they don't do anything that would actually make those preferences a reality (i.e. elect candidates based on those issue who will enact the policies people say they want). So when it comes down to it, people do not actually want those things enough to take the actions necessary to make them happen.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#292

Post by ABCLAW »

systemvoltage wrote: post #271
ABCLAW wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am a socialist where governments are efficient, liberatarian where governments are dysfunctional. At first glance this position seems reasonable, but ultimately it's short sighted - the game is iterative. Penalizing the public coffer ultimately results in higher costs over the long run as high ROI investments are left on the planning table. The attitude itself is a large part of why the American government is para…

This is a straw man. I’m speaking up for disproportional attention given to not holding the government accountable. There should be more focus on why government is dysfunctional than about raising taxes. The situation is completely opposite today, extremely lopsided. Newspapers and journalism has stopped exposing government scandals and inefficiencies, but people are frothing over other things. I want governments to…

It's not a straw man at all.

Even in this post you restate the ideological underpinnings of starve the beast.

If you want governments to work like efficient machines, you need to invest in them, which requires political will that will only exist after dispelling the narrative that they are incapable of solving problems.

Also, I'm confused about the comment about newspapers and journalism. Do you have a source for that claim? My everyday experience is almost the exact opposite.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#293

Post by 0xy »

jusssi wrote: post #162
0xy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can only be true if you hold humans in such low regard that you think they cannot make an informed choice about where to work and under which conditions. Any example of a cooperative usually descends into chaos, an example being worker's unions which descend into criminality, corruption and pure evil (teacher's unions regularly defend sexual predator teachers, for example) more often than not. It's also a pure f…

> sexual predator teachers You need to chill, dude. I am not defending child molesters. I am not even claiming that capital investment is evil. I am simply pointing out the fact that the relation is parasitic. > As an investor, I don't see a single cent of profit in this case. Then you aren't paying capital gains tax either, so I don't see the problem. I'm curious though, do you also not expect to get any profit for…

You don't appear to understand how either stocks or CGT works.

Cloudflare does not issue dividends. Dividends are distributions of profit. If I bought Cloudflare stock at $30 and sold at $90, for example, the $60 profit I'm making isn't taken from Cloudflare, it's paid by the buyer on the other end of the stock trade, which is usually an institution or a retail buyer.

I'm not and are never "taking profit" from Cloudflare, in fact I provide them liquidity and also allow them to dilute my ownership in order to pay their employees in stock grants.

Selling shares doesn't really mean the company is hurt by it, especially since I'm a retail investor who doesn't have the capital to impact the price even a single cent.

Owning their stock when they aren't paying dividends is a bet that either growth of the company will inflate the price so I can profit, or it's a bet that they'll one day issue dividends (not anytime soon).

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#294

Post by 0xy »

jusssi wrote: post #213
lukas099 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not parasitic, it's symbiotic. Without profit-seeking capital, there would be no opportuinities for productive labor.

It starts off as symbiotic (you give capital for future profit), but becomes parasitic (you just keep leeching profit without giving anything more in return). At least, that is what I plan to do. Stop working and live as a full-time parasite as soon as I can afford it. Maybe others here are more altruistic.

Buying a non-dividend stock and selling it a higher price does not cost the company a cent. The profit doesn't come from the company at all.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#295

Post by Thorrez »

chii wrote: post #236
Thorrez wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if the top 1% paid their fair share, they would pay more than 33% of the country's taxes. But nevertheless they do in fact pay 33% of the country's taxes.

so is not paying more than their per-capita ratio not a fair share? I think 33% for a 1% cohort is quite large. Why does the relative amount of tax paid against the total networth matter in this instance?

Would you have someone who's broke and unemployed pay the same amount of tax as a billionaire?

Ideally taxes shouldn't be a large burden to anyone. The richer someone is, the larger absolute amount of taxes that person can pay for the same burden level. In fact, it's not just a fixed percent. The richer someone is, the larger percent of taxes that person can pay for the same burden level.

The rich got to where they are by using the infrastructure built by the government. A rich person gets more value from the government than a poor person, so thus it's fair that a rich person pays more in taxes.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#296

Post by jusssi »

0xy wrote: post #293
jusssi wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sexual predator teachers You need to chill, dude. I am not defending child molesters. I am not even claiming that capital investment is evil. I am simply pointing out the fact that the relation is parasitic. > As an investor, I don't see a single cent of profit in this case. Then you aren't paying capital gains tax either, so I don't see the problem. I'm curious though, do you also not expect to get any profit for…

You don't appear to understand how either stocks or CGT works. Cloudflare does not issue dividends. Dividends are distributions of profit. If I bought Cloudflare stock at $30 and sold at $90, for example, the $60 profit I'm making isn't taken from Cloudflare, it's paid by the buyer on the other end of the stock trade, which is usually an institution or a retail buyer. I'm not and are never "taking profit" from Cloudf…

From the company POV the capital investment is the outstanding shares. The shares need to be kept happy with some combination of immediate profit and continuosly growing projection of future profit (i.e. investing into growth), or they start to lose value in the market and become even more unhappy. Eventually investing into growth runs into diminishing returns and immediate profit becomes the dominant component.

The profit you get from buying and selling on the market is either a result of the shares being kept happy, or taking advantage of market mechanics. The latter is mostly a form of gambling that doesn't produce value.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#297

Post by ChrisLomont »

HWR_14 wrote: post #286
ChrisLomont wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Forbes 400 are billion dollar businesses. A tiny, tiny fraction are the type you describe. What makes you think most businesses are your cherry picked type? I see no evidence they constitute any more than a miniscule number of such companies. Want a bigger list? Here's several thousand billion dollar companies: https://companiesmarketcap.com/ How many don't pay local property, income, unemployment, and other taxe…

The Forbes 400 are people (the 400 richest). You are thinking about the Fortune 100/500. We're on a site about tech startups, reading an article about tax avoidance by a tech startup and many people on the board are saying they want to do that tax avoidance. I don't think I have to worry that I cherry picked the type of company as a tech startup. > How many don't pay local property, income, unemployment, and other ta…

The tax breaks in question are not specific to your goal post moving subset of tech startups. The founder tax breaks are offered because they bring the benefits I mentioned to the areas specified in the tax breaks.

Furthermore, you're replying to my comment that companies pay significant local taxes.

So yes, if you ignore all other benefits companies bring to the region, ignore the purpose and benefits of those breaks, ignore the comment you're replying to, and ignore that most companies using these tax breaks don't fit your claims, then yes, you can be correct for goalpost moving post selected cherry picking. Congrats.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#298

Post by whywhywhywhy »

titzer wrote: post #288
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is there are reasons for both those things. Yet the system isn’t honest about them.

Why would they be honest with you? The system always benefits the rich, since the beginning of time. Americans tell themselves a lot of lies about how low taxes mean freedom, when it just means we are getting screwed harder by the ultra-wealthy.

Tax is controlled and enforced by the elites. While all the elites are rich, not all the ultra-wealthy are elites.

When the government says "Billionaires" they are talking about the non-elite rich.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#299

Post by Retric »

trasz wrote: post #260
Retric wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government is the worlds largest charity, it also does a lot of other things. However it accepts donations and supports the poor, arts and sciences etc. There are even plenty of things people might want to donate too that only governments do, the Red Cross etc are hardly building space telescopes or US highways.

I'm not sure if the positive contribution by US exceeds its negative contribution, such as destruction of Middle East and large parts of South America.

It’s difficult to compare. Seatbelts alone have saved significantly more lives than every middle eastern intervention cost but it’s hard to say how long before someone else came up with them.

What would have happened without an open GPS? Without TCP/IP or all that medical research etc etc.

Now try to figure out what WWII would have looked like without lend lease etcand I just have no idea.

PS: I doubt most charities are a net positive impact, but again it’s complicated.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#300

Post by manigandham »

ramraj07 wrote: post #98
systemvoltage wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we also simultaneously hold the government accountable for efficient spending of the money? I want 2x better government services for the same amount of taxes. The fact that no one questions government efficiency, but everyone is eager to pay taxes is delusional. If I lived in Zurich or Tokyo, yes, I am happy to pay taxes. I really don't want to give a dime to Oakland local government and California in general; I…

Pay your tax first (a fair share at that) and then harp about unfair spending.

What is a fair share? And what's the point of giving even more money to an entity that wastes most of it?

You position is irrational and seems to be from a place of envy over other's wealth than actual societal benefit.

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