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Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

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Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#291

Post by zozbot234 »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #268
jackdawed wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me, English is not my first language so at times I struggle finding the right word for it. The pali word is "sila", the closest translation is morals. To be deficient in sila is to be deficient in morals, was my thought process. One example is do no harm, or avoid lying. If all your daily life is filled with causing harm, and deceit, then it will be filled with chaos and end up making it harder for you to mak…

Are rent controls a good policy or not? Are unrestricted free markets a good thing or not? Is killing a tiger good when the tiger is about to each your child? Morals are easy (and clear) once you don't have to deal with the real world.

These are questions of prudence a.k.a. practical wisdom or good judgment, which is very much acknowledged as part of morality even though it might not be the main focus of moral philosophy.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#292

Post by depressedpanda »

jackdawed wrote: post #172
danuker wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've experienced all these interpersonal deficits after meditating seriously 2 hours every day for 2 years straight. Wow! I haven't meditated before. That sounds like a lot of time. Do you still meditate? What does it offer you? Has it offered you what you expected?

I still meditate daily, but more in a maintenance manner, the same way a power lifter goes to the gym out of habit, for health, without the goal of setting new PRs. Most of the time, my mind meditates itself automatically. I am very good at deep work, and concentrating on stuff. It is also easy to deal with stress and emotions in my day to day. My life feels like playing a third person video game with the FOV slider…

> One thing that is keeping me from progressing further is the inconvenience that comes with sleep alterations caused by meditation, and how it affects my work as a programmer.

How has meditation affected your sleep?

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#293

Post by DoingIsLearning »

pqs wrote: post #287
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Christian faith you normal pray/ask God to protect/provide/grant something to loved ones or a group of people, even if they are a large group. Metta Bhavana is more meant as a far reaching 'radiating kindness' across all beings on earth, as in to visualize literally everyone and wished them all well with deep warmth. The purpose is more to love equally those who you would previously classify as loved ones versus p…

A Christian must try to imitate Christ (e.g. read the Thomas Kempis book), Christ is God, God loves everyone. We Christians must love every person on Earth, as Christ loves them, every single one of them, including the worst assassin. What's the difference?

I meant the purpose of a prayer for others (in the Catholic sense) is a request to God. I pray that my brother is granted X I pray that my children remain safe, etc.

What you describe there in that we should love all equally is Christian thinking as per the Gospel, which I agree has many similarities with that Budhist meditation exercise but is not specific to a prayer for other people.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#294

Post by pqs »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #293
pqs wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Christian must try to imitate Christ (e.g. read the Thomas Kempis book), Christ is God, God loves everyone. We Christians must love every person on Earth, as Christ loves them, every single one of them, including the worst assassin. What's the difference?

I meant the purpose of a prayer for others (in the Catholic sense) is a request to God. I pray that my brother is granted X I pray that my children remain safe, etc. What you describe there in that we should love all equally is Christian thinking as per the Gospel, which I agree has many similarities with that Budhist meditation exercise but is not specific to a prayer for other people.

But you must act on this love, and there are many ways, through our daily actions, but also through prayer. I think it should come quite natural to any devout Christian.

My whole point is that I find it interesting, and surprising, how western psychologists are taking concepts from eastern religion, completely ignoring the western religious tradition.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#295

Post by zozbot234 »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #284
pqs wrote: post #280

I'm amazed by this paragraph: "He’s examined a technique known as ‘loving-kindness meditation’, for example, which is inspired by the Buddhist practice of Metta Bhavana. The practice involves contemplating people in your life – from friends and family to acquaintances and strangers – and cultivating good wishes and feelings of warmth for them." This is regular Christian prayer. We Catholics pray for other people, eve…

In Christian faith you normal pray/ask God to protect/provide/grant something to loved ones or a group of people, even if they are a large group. Metta Bhavana is more meant as a far reaching 'radiating kindness' across all beings on earth, as in to visualize literally everyone and wished them all well with deep warmth. The purpose is more to love equally those who you would previously classify as loved ones versus p…

The very word "loving-kindness" was devised in English as a translation of the Hebrew chesed ("charity") e.g. in Psalm 50/51: "Haue mercie vpon mee, O God, according to thy louingkindnesse" (chesed). So in Biblical and Christian tradition God's mercy is ultimately seen as an aspect of His loving-kindness.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#296

Post by cyberpunk »

skissane wrote: post #262
cyberpunk wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think ethics is closer than Morals in this case

Well, that's a big dispute – are "ethics" and "morals" synonyms, or do they differ in meaning? The traditional answer: they are synonyms. English (and many other European languages too) often has pairs of words with interchangeable meanings, one of which comes from Greek ("ethics"), the other from Latin ("morals"). The traditional identification of the two terms comes from the fact that when Cicero sought to explain…

You know, I’ve never really thought much about the difference.

In my head, morals usually equates to acting within some set of conduct guidelines laid out by society or religion.

Ethics, is the same but instead of not (e.g) just shooting someone because it says not to in some book or law, I do it because I somehow know it’s harmful.

That’s a pretty awful explanation. I guess I mean, I somehow draw the distinction between these terms based on where these “seem” to come from.

I think most people have the intuitive ethics, morality is something we pick up.

Of course, that’s probably complete nonsense ;)

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#297

Post by palisade »

"Time. I had nothing but time. Endless time. At first it was madness. Then enlightenment. Then madness again. But perhaps it was a gift. I could see the life of time. And as I watched the life of time, in all its fleeting, terrible light, I wondered: 'Had I lived? Was I just the object in another story? Was that all I ever was? Could I be more?' I had nothing but time. And still, no answer. Time without purpose is a prison. I have glimpsed into the mind of eternity. Perhaps the mind of God. And, found nothing but silence. I think we should just be friends... Fuck off! I'm a Time God!" -- Jessica in Rick & Morty, Episode: Mort Dinner Rick Andre; June 20, 2021

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#298

Post by zozbot234 »

pqs wrote: post #294
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant the purpose of a prayer for others (in the Catholic sense) is a request to God. I pray that my brother is granted X I pray that my children remain safe, etc. What you describe there in that we should love all equally is Christian thinking as per the Gospel, which I agree has many similarities with that Budhist meditation exercise but is not specific to a prayer for other people.

But you must act on this love, and there are many ways, through our daily actions, but also through prayer. I think it should come quite natural to any devout Christian. My whole point is that I find it interesting, and surprising, how western psychologists are taking concepts from eastern religion, completely ignoring the western religious tradition.

Often they're "completely ignoring" the Eastern tradition as well. Meditation in a strict sense is not even that widespread in Eastern practice; it's generally practiced by monks, or perhaps by laity on a rare, focused spiritual retreat - so quite similar to mystical contemplative prayer in the West.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#299

Post by LightG »

haswell wrote: post #105
LightG wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First question: Yes. The rest: conflation.

> The rest: conflation. Conflation with what?

As above ...

The major issue raised here (mindfulness and selfishness in general, etc) with SF homelessness and peoples response to it.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#300

Post by heavenlyblue »

emptysongglass wrote: post #283
heavenlyblue wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are rent controls a good policy or not? Are unrestricted free markets a good thing or not? Is killing a tiger good when the tiger is about to each your child? Morals are easy (and clear) once you don't have to deal with the real world.

That's not what the Buddha professed to teach. He taught the illness (dukkha) and the cure for that illness (the eightfold path). A basic framework of ethics girds the path. Almost no one would argue with them: no lying, cheating on your spouse, killing, etc. A fundamental misapprehension of these teachings is what gets people wound up. The Buddha's teachings are not going to answer if rent controls are good policy o…

> Almost no one would argue with them: no lying, cheating on your spouse, killing, etc.

None of these are sins in their absolute sense though, and this is what I am underlining, that you can't possibly create absolutist ethics in any way. Philosophy had created a lot of points of view on this, but none of them managed to create a consistent worldview that would work for any occasion.

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