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Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

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Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#291

Post by yyyk »

Larrikin wrote: post #15
seanw444 wrote: post #4

I just don't understand what the node-ipc dev was expecting when he did that. "Hm, maybe if I put malware into a community-trusted module that destroys files of people in a certain geopolitical region, the countless innocent citizens that are affected will realize what they did wrong! Wait, who am I actually targeting again?"

Probably hoped the effects would negatively effect people there so they could put pressure to stop the murder of other innocent civilians. Arguments like this are similar to the BLM protest that try to equate property with human lives.

I can't agree with these arguments.

A) IP geolocation is far from perfect, quite a few completely unrelated people could have been affected.

B) There was a chance of massive collateral damage to stuff like hospitals, water company, etc. and therefore affecting civilians, including children. If you think Putin wouldn't use that to rally Russia and launch a massive war, you haven't observed Putin for long.

We got very lucky this software equivalent of a warcrime was stopped early. Yet the punishment was absurdly light. I will staying away from NPM after that.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#292

Post by LunaSea »

gadders wrote: post #281
baryphonic wrote: post #262

To be honest, I'm annoyed by the benign protestware messages when they start to get in the way of using the software, particularly on mobile. I was looking at the isomorphic git documentation the other day, and noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap that takes up screen real estate, especially in landscape mode on a phone.[0] Wha…

>>Is a single person going to be persuaded to support either cause by seeing this banner on a relatively niche JS library that reduces readability of its documentation? The purpose of the banner is not to convert anyone, the purpose is to demonstrate that the author of the package subscribes to the correct opinions.

So basically virtue signalling

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#293

Post by reaperducer »

whimsicalism wrote: post #274
pkulak wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company does business in Russia right now, they are giving money to the Russian government which will be used to kill Ukrainians. Let's not conflate wartime trade policy with Twitter wokeness marketing.

I know this will get labeled as whataboutism, so to pre-empt that I am suggesting sanctions and Hague charges for all perpetrators, but what is uniquely bad about killing Ukrainians over Syrians, Libyans, or Iraqis?

I haven't seen anyone in this thread, or anywhere else, state that killing Ukrainians is uniquely bad. Do you have a source for this assertion?

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#294

Post by [deleted] »

gadders wrote: post #281
baryphonic wrote: post #262

To be honest, I'm annoyed by the benign protestware messages when they start to get in the way of using the software, particularly on mobile. I was looking at the isomorphic git documentation the other day, and noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap that takes up screen real estate, especially in landscape mode on a phone.[0] Wha…

>>Is a single person going to be persuaded to support either cause by seeing this banner on a relatively niche JS library that reduces readability of its documentation? The purpose of the banner is not to convert anyone, the purpose is to demonstrate that the author of the package subscribes to the correct opinions.

[deleted]

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#295

Post by [deleted] »

baryphonic wrote: post #262

To be honest, I'm annoyed by the benign protestware messages when they start to get in the way of using the software, particularly on mobile. I was looking at the isomorphic git documentation the other day, and noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap that takes up screen real estate, especially in landscape mode on a phone.[0] Wha…

[deleted]

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#296

Post by duxup »

nimih wrote: post #272
duxup wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Javascript developers have a whole different culture than the developer circles I like to frequent. Most Javascript developers I know are just writing code and that's what they're concerned with. Vocal voices on twitter or etc != most Javascript developers. I'd argue most vocal folks on forums or etc don't represent most developers of any given language.

> I'd argue most vocal folks on forums or etc don't represent most developers of any given language. Sure, but for some reason, this stuff seems to only happen in the JS community (at least to my knowledge and recollection, which admittedly may be faulty). Maybe it's the fault of the tooling or the language, but python is another popular language which has historically had quite a messy answer to dependency managemen…

>this stuff seems to only happen in the JS community

What stuff? Drama? That happens everywhere.

Malware? That stuff happens a lot of places, maybe npm makes it more accessible but that's just a technical hurdle ... doesn't mean it wouldn't happen elsewhere if folks could do it easily.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#297

Post by Turing_Machine »

matsemann wrote: post #99
ekianjo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not taking sides is just not taking sides. There's no need to turn such a position into a shortcut to something else. It's as stupid as the kids saying "if you are not with us you are against us". Typical populist bullshit.

How hard is it to just say "I think Russia is wrong for invading Ukraine and killing people"? That's all you have to do. Just write it. If you can't do that, but still want to engage in the discussion on the topic, your standpoint is clear. You're not some holier person not taking a stand. You have taken one, you just don't dare to spell it out.

Because if I spend my time writing down everything I think is wrong with the world, I literally will not have time to do anything else.

Your cause is not more important than thousands of other causes, and my refusal to spend my time amplifying your viewpoint does not in any sense imply I agree with the opposing view.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#298

Post by BaronVonSteuben »

baryphonic wrote: post #262

To be honest, I'm annoyed by the benign protestware messages when they start to get in the way of using the software, particularly on mobile. I was looking at the isomorphic git documentation the other day, and noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap that takes up screen real estate, especially in landscape mode on a phone.[0] Wha…

The Svelte banner looks ok on desktop, but yeah seriously problematic on mobile.

I think this is an outgrowth of the "use whatever power you have to push for change" culture. It has been highly effective in the past, particularly with gay marriage, and I think those victories gave it enough gas to run for many years even without success. There's also the social points that one gets from it as well. I know of at least one project that added a BLM banner to their site because of social pressure, even though they felt that much of the protesting had gone too far (burning businesses, looting, blocking traffic, etc). The whole "not to take a side is to take a side" is a powerful social pressure to conform. I know of one other project that added a BLM banner so they could get on an "awesome list of BLM supporting software" or something like that which drove them a lot of traffic. Anyway my point is that there are lots of motivations for such, and I suspect many if not most aren't because the person has a deep and abiding passion for the cause (though without a doubt, some do).

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#299

Post by whatshisface »

reaperducer wrote: post #293
whimsicalism wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this will get labeled as whataboutism, so to pre-empt that I am suggesting sanctions and Hague charges for all perpetrators, but what is uniquely bad about killing Ukrainians over Syrians, Libyans, or Iraqis?

I haven't seen anyone in this thread, or anywhere else, state that killing Ukrainians is uniquely bad. Do you have a source for this assertion?

They are obliquely complaining that the US gets a free pass to blow up civilians in other countries in the course of pursuing its own geopolitical goals, an by extension the US armed forces are exempt from international prosecution.

As for domestic prosecution, the record is mixed, but there was that high-profile case that got a presidential pardon.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#300

Post by shuntress »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #18
commandlinefan wrote: post #5

I'm in Texas. A LOT of Californians disagree with some of the laws that Texas has passed. How long will it be until my hard drive gets reformatted by some protestor in San Francisco who localizes my IP address?

I have legitimately argued against using NodeJS as the foundation of our next product for this very reason. NodeJS' culture is very much "move fast and break things", and "all software is political". Look at the TSC drama. Leftpad.js. This isn't an ecosystem that you want to build and maintain a product on.

All things are inherently "political" just not always significant enough to be worth considering.

The trite ways to say it (ie: "we live in a society" or "actions have consequences") don't really capture the full complexity of human interaction but do somewhat describe the notion that everything you do as an individual affects and is affected by everything everyone else does. Being "political" really means just believing that those effects are too significant to ignore.

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