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New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

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Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#291

Post by enos_feedler »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #188
enos_feedler wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web is built on the foundation I can use any browser. You are going to break the fundamental promise just to avoid working around a bug?

> The web is built on the foundation I can use any browser. This foundation is provided by browsers and is also broken by browsers. If safari's foundation is broken then safari is the one not fulfilling that fundamental promise, not the websites now broken. So yes, don't use a browser if it doesn't work.

I think this is a pretty harsh judgement for a webGL bug.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#292

Post by mccorrinall »

dmitriid wrote: post #250
agust wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, simple websites mostly work in Safari. But we're in 2022, and indeed a lot of companies develop web apps, and not simple websites like 20 years ago. The web itself is an app platform. The only browser preventing it to happen on mobile is Safari. Have a look at the desktop. There, web apps have replaced most native apps long ago.

> The web itself is an app platform. It's not. And frankly will never be. > The only browser preventing it to happen on mobile is Safari. It's not preventing anything > look at the desktop. There, web apps have replaced most native apps long ago. What a strange fantasy world you live in.

I use a lot of web applications like tradingview.com and need web push notifications. Safari still does not support them and it’s so annoying.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#293

Post by eyelidlessness »

vetinari wrote: post #207
eyelidlessness wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure many of your users would welcome this feature but I’m personally grateful that I don’t get random notifications from websites.

You would not; you must grant a permission to push notifications to the site first.

I mean, yeah, with a thing popping up on my screen to ask me for it. Which is fine if I, say, install it as an app (eg PWA or whatever), but super annoying on websites I’m visiting for the first time.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#294

Post by eyelidlessness »

leptons wrote: post #216
eyelidlessness wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decides if it's important enough to release as a 15.4.1 (which they probably won't, which means I'm stuck finding a workaround) - or if it comes out in iOS 16, then a good chunk of our users will never get the fix I know people like to complain about Safari, but: 1. It’s absolutely common to ask developers for a minimal repro case in a bug report. 2. There are four major Safari releases under 15.x. 3. Apple OS upgr…

"you're holding it wrong" said as "you're too tired". OP's tiredness has nothing at all to do with Apple's abusive policy of forcing Safari on IOS. That's the whole entire problem, not OP not getting enough sleep.

My comment did have some clarifying points, but my observation that they may be tired wasn’t a dismissal or rejection of anything, it was just empathy. I’ve come back to respond to this several times and walked away confused each time, because I sincerely recognized that dealing with broken technology takes a toll, and I was surprised by this being interpreted as less sincere. But I did re-read my comment and I see how that could be misread along with those clarifying points.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#295

Post by eyelidlessness »

arilotter wrote: post #269
eyelidlessness wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decides if it's important enough to release as a 15.4.1 (which they probably won't, which means I'm stuck finding a workaround) - or if it comes out in iOS 16, then a good chunk of our users will never get the fix I know people like to complain about Safari, but: 1. It’s absolutely common to ask developers for a minimal repro case in a bug report. 2. There are four major Safari releases under 15.x. 3. Apple OS upgr…

1. I absolutely agree, and will be making one to get this bug fixed. 2. All of which have different bugs :^) 3. My product's usage data disagrees. We've got plenty of users on old iOS versions - a really big chunk on iOS 14, for example. I want Apple to stop restricting third-party browsers on iOS. MacOS Safari has the same WebGL bugs, but our game's Desktop client uses a WebView under our control & versioning that i…

Yep I get that it’s frustrating. I realize in hindsight my comment about being tired might have come off dismissive, but I mean sincerely that I recognize this is an exhausting thing to deal with, and I hope you get the rest and whatever care you need to keep going. Take care.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#296

Post by eternityforest »

alexklark wrote: post #275
eternityforest wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish Safari would go away and Mozilla would switch to a full featured Chromium with everything enabled (But user-toggle-able). Browser diversity isn't work2 as advertised. It's just Google inventing things that other companies only get a year later, or totally reject. Mozilla needs to start trusting its users to have access to features like Google does, and Apple needs to allow third party browsers without W…

good try google team, but no, go back to work nerfing ublock.

My life would be a lot different if I had the skills for the google team or any of the FAANG teams.

Nor would I be nerfing ublock if I had the choice, browsers are already nerfed way more than enough, and if it were up to me we would have full pluggable network stacks as extensions, with access to raw sockets, so we had a vague chance at ever having a P2P internet that isn't blockchainified.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#297

Post by account42 »

alwillis wrote: post #81
donatj wrote: post #57

> WebKit added support for lazy-loading images with the loading attribute on the element, providing web developers with an easy way to instruct the browser to defer loading certain images until the user scrolls near them Maybe there's hope that I can then just turn this off on a browser level? I've got gigabit internet at home, and your images popping in on scroll makes it feel like I'm on dial up. Lazy loading image…

Lazy loading images is at best user hostile bandwidth saving The primary use case is to not load images you may not ever see because you may not scroll that far down the page and they don't appear in the viewport. Like any feature, it has to be used correctly by the developer… obviously hero images and other images important to the initial user experience shouldn't be lazy loaded.

> The primary use case is to not load images you may not ever see because you may not scroll that far down the page and they don't appear in the viewport.

That is the "bandwith saving" part. It's user hostile because it is another non-JS privacy leak and because it means that you can no longer open a website to read later when you might not have internet access.

> obviously hero images and other images important to the initial user experience

Hero images are typically the most pointless and irrelevant to the user experience. If you want to save bandwidth then push back against this fad.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#298

Post by jcbrand »

taf2 wrote: post #103
burtonator wrote: post #44

> New support for BroadcastChannel allows tabs, windows, iframes, and Workers from an origin to send messages to each other. This enables experiences like syncing login state for a site across multiple tabs. This is SUPER nice... there are other hacks like IndexedDB or localStorage but this is way better! But the frustrating part her is that we're excited about Webkit finally starting to catch up. Chrome is just perp…

I think this means SharedWorkers are not too far behind. Pretty sure I saw a issue tracker indicating maybe SharedWorkers had been restored in a nightly build?

That's great news if true. Last I saw (maybe a year ago), Safari claimed they won't support shared workers at all.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#299

Post by dbbk »

stack_framer wrote: post #262
jmull wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m surprised by all the heat around the push notifications API. Is it really going to mean that much to web apps? I’m assuming it will work pretty much like push notifications on desktop, which is an awful UX.

It would mean a great deal to all sorts of web apps! To provide just one example, I released a turn-based word game as a PWA two years ago. With no option for native push notifications on iOS, I decided to email players to notify them each time it was their turn in a game. Despite my domain having full support for DKIM, SPF, and DMARC, the usual problems of email were still a huge pain: Some domains (I'm looking at y…

The point is it would be overwhelmingly used for spam, causing users to tune out of all notifications.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#300

Post by avazhi »

mushyhammer wrote: post #279
avazhi wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari on my iPhone is basically unusable. Refreshes the page constantly; swipe back a page and it refreshes; scroll down long enough and it refreshes. Then there's Reddit - crashes constantly, literally will not load comments. It does this with and without extensions.

Sounds like you’re on an old phone? I did have RAM issues on the 11 Pro that unloaded every app as soon as I opened the camera, but otherwise tabs did not unload that often. Reddit is its shitshow and I ended up installing Apollo. This is not Safari’s fault.

iphone12 mini
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