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Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

reuters.com

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Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#291

EU and US response to Russia is totally ineffective. They should have moved troops in from the beginning.

And risked an enormous escalation with a nuclear power? That would be reckless. Don't get me wrong - I would also like to see decisive action to this attack. But escalating a relatively local dispute into a conflict between world powers would risk a WW. Moving in troops into a non-NATO ally would also be extremely difficult to explain on the world stage. There probably is decisive action being implemented behind the…

> There probably is decisive action being implemented behind the scenes right now

Many, many strongly worded letters will go out.

I’m sure Putin will cry himself to sleep tonight.

I dunno, Putins behavior reminds me of my 3 year old son. When he does something he knows he’s not supposed to do, he checks your reaction, and if you don’t respond he’ll see how far he can push it.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#293

Some Russian products that you would like to avoid: * Yandex * Lukoil * WinRAR * Kaspersky * Lada * Russian Standard Original Vodka * Stoli Vodka * Baltika * Lukoil * Gazprom * Kamaz * Masha and the Bear * Kalashnikov * Stolichnaya * Ural motorcycles * VK

Could you explain the motivation for avoiding these? Are they run by the government? Is there a risk that they will be? If not, why exactly should I have a problem with Russian software developers?

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#294
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economics is clear on nothing. The curve maximizing behaviors for international trade have a few assumptions built in, e.g. that Taiwan does not get annexed by China and suddenly the trade incentives change horribly.

I think the assumption is that when the system is threatened, the leaders of all the countries benefiting from said capitalism would grow a pair and do something. Because if they don't, and the system collapses, then what?

The system has already collapsed if war is happening. The opportunity cost of economic trade is dependence. There’s more at play than basic competitive advantages to actual trade.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#295
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. But if you're Air Liquide or somebody in the US, and you're distilling the air anyway , adding the capability to extract the neon might make sense.

Only if the soviets hadn’t already spent until billions adding the capacity to overproduce it due to a perceived national security need that didn’t pan out. It’s essentially free for the company to do this since the gov’t already sunk the cost decades ago. No one has done that for Air liquide, at least not yet.

Sometimes even a non-invisible hand of the market can get it right, if only by accident.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#297
post #293

Some Russian products that you would like to avoid: * Yandex * Lukoil * WinRAR * Kaspersky * Lada * Russian Standard Original Vodka * Stoli Vodka * Baltika * Lukoil * Gazprom * Kamaz * Masha and the Bear * Kalashnikov * Stolichnaya * Ural motorcycles * VK

Could you explain the motivation for avoiding these? Are they run by the government? Is there a risk that they will be? If not, why exactly should I have a problem with Russian software developers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaspersky_bans_and_allegations...

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#298
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should be talking about human lives. My Ukrainian colleague was terrified for his family today.

You think a global increase of food prices will not have an effect on human lives?

>> We should be talking about human lives.

>> My Ukrainian colleague was terrified for his family today.

> You think a global increase of food prices will not have an effect on human lives?

Not nearly the same kind as the one the GP is referring to.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#299

I've found the reason (I think) 90% of the world's semiconductor-grade neon production is concentrated in one country. Per this German government whitepaper about the noble gas industry: the USSR massively overinvested in neon capacity in the 1980's, in order to build space-based excimer laser weapons. Ukraine's extant plants date (probably) to the 1980's; they're responsible for a global oversupply that's persisted…

Given this piece of information, it's hard to see how 500-600,000 m3/a could be used for the lasers used in chip manufacture. Even if the whole world production drops by 99.9%, there's probably going to be more than enough for those lasers to continue working. Edit: it also appears that the current state of the art chip manufacturing does not use excimer lasers anymore [1], and the prior generations used them, but no…

Those krypton fluoride and argon fluoride lasers are exactly the lasers that use neon, even though "neon" is not in their name and their respective Wikipedia pages do not currently mention it. See for example this 2016 announcement from laser supplier Gigaphoton:

https://www.gigaphoton.com/en/news/3797

"Gigaphoton to Begin Field Evaluations for Neon Gas Recycling System “hTGM”"

In KrF and ArF excimer lasers, which are used in advanced semiconductor manufacturing processes, neon accounts for over 96% of laser gases used as the buffer gas. However, the cost of neon gas has risen sharply, reaching 5 to 20 times previous prices due to difficulty in obtaining it, a situation brought about by a worldwide neon supply shortage that has continued since 2015. In response to the situation, in July of 2015 Gigaphoton launched the "Neon Gas Rescue Program" in order to provide support to customers in sustaining stable high-volume manufacturing environments.

Of the three program options Gigaphoton previously announced plans of launching in 2016, the company has now completed development of its neon gas recycling system "hTGM," and will begin field evaluations of the system this month. hTGM makes it possible to reuse laser gas by connecting directly to the conduit of lasers in operation at semiconductor plants, collecting the used gas, removing impurities, and then re-injecting it back into the laser. This system is both eco-friendly and provides the greatest possible recycling rate without impacting the operation of laser equipment. hTGM also features an extremely efficient design that allows up to five lasers to be connected to a single unit. At present, the company has decided to begin evaluations for KrF lasers at user facilities from the end of February, after which it plans to progressively apply the system to ArF lasers as well.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#300

EU and US response to Russia is totally ineffective. They should have moved troops in from the beginning.

And risked an enormous escalation with a nuclear power? That would be reckless. Don't get me wrong - I would also like to see decisive action to this attack. But escalating a relatively local dispute into a conflict between world powers would risk a WW. Moving in troops into a non-NATO ally would also be extremely difficult to explain on the world stage. There probably is decisive action being implemented behind the…

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