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The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

291–300 of 520 posts

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#291

While this bill is strongly opposed by the Internet Society, ACLU, CDT, and EFF, the critiques I've read don't get much into the real "why" behind this legislation continuing to be pushed so forcefully. The pretext is, of course, "protect the children" and more generally law-and-order with a bonus side-helping of "stop those awful social media giants." While these justifications are (hopefully) obvious misdirection t…

But democracy existed before whatsapp, why cant it exist after ?

I mean I agree with what you say it s convenient to anonymously communicate private thought over public telecom fibres, but... I mean... democracy and "freedom" as a Nation citizrns are unrelated to this, completely unrelated.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#292
post #41

While this bill is strongly opposed by the Internet Society, ACLU, CDT, and EFF, the critiques I've read don't get much into the real "why" behind this legislation continuing to be pushed so forcefully. The pretext is, of course, "protect the children" and more generally law-and-order with a bonus side-helping of "stop those awful social media giants." While these justifications are (hopefully) obvious misdirection t…

> These people seem incapable of understanding the existential threat to free society and democracy posed by limiting everyone's ability to communicate private thoughts. The existential threat this bill poses to free society and democracy is exactly why they're supporting it. It's not some accidental side effect. They're opposed to the existence of free society and democracy because it limits government power, which…

Free society means limited government, and the only way for the government to be in favor of that is for the government to vote against its own interests.

I would argue that a free society protects people’s rights, and this is impossible without a strong government. As for voting against its own interests, the government in a true democracy is quite literally the will of the people. We get what we vote for. So if people in general are unhappy with the outcome it is democracy itself that has broken down. The solution to a broken democratic process is not to limit the consequences of that process by shrinking government, it is to fix what’s broken in the first place. In a healthy democracy the government will take up only the responsibilities people want it to take up, and no more than that.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#293

While this bill is strongly opposed by the Internet Society, ACLU, CDT, and EFF, the critiques I've read don't get much into the real "why" behind this legislation continuing to be pushed so forcefully. The pretext is, of course, "protect the children" and more generally law-and-order with a bonus side-helping of "stop those awful social media giants." While these justifications are (hopefully) obvious misdirection t…

I agree with your comment, but just to point out something counterintuitive: > privateer (NSO etc) threat actors, E2EE is actually a boon to NSO and friends. It's how they get to deliver their exploits to targets without the service operator being able to inspect them or filter them, or retroactively analyze them to plug the exploits. NSO doesn't have any traffic inspection capability, so their antics rely entirely o…

> E2EE is actually a boon to NSO and friends.

I think you're right, but I don't think it's due to some first principles contradiction between E2EE and exploits as much as it is largely a historical anomaly that customers have looked to service providers for security. The track record shows pretty clearly that the service provider's interest in customer security only goes as far as not to be reputationally damaging - we've seen plenty of communications companies actively helping authorities to spy on their own customers.

> If iMessage weren't E2EE it would be very easy for Apple to implement a heuristic to look for suspicious messages

Indeed, it would at the very least be easier, but let's assume Apple did have this capability. The first order of priority would be stopping spam, which is orders of magnitude more common and problematic than targeted exploits. Simply taking a look at the app store kind of shows their ambition level. At best, Apple is going to want to be "more secure than Android", but beyond that.. it's simply not gonna be a priority (and Apple is even one of better ones).

> NSO sometimes goes on years exploiting the same iOS bugs before Apple figures them out

Yes, but I think this is temporary. Citizen Labs have been shortening this round trip time enormously simply by having analysis or software deployed on likely targets' devices. CrowdStrike and similar security companies operate on a similar model, acting as a counter-surveillance trusted third party. On medium-term time scales, I think such models are more ethical, have a superior incentive structure and, most importantly, will prove to be more effective than the usual half-assed service provider solutions. At least, I hope I'm right.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#295
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you, I think the last 5 years have shown that exhaustion wins. It is just a matter of time. People won't stay vigilant. They just want to provide a life for their family. Life is hard enough without having to stop clueless and bribed politicians from ending freedom on a weekly basis.

I think the last 30 years of failed government efforts to effectively end the use of secure encryption contradict your opinion. Those battles were won by vigilant defenders. You can and should join them if it's important to you.

The other way to look at your statement is that secure encryption is inherently unbeatable by its very nature, and attempts to legislate against it are like trying to say that 1+1=3 for very large values of 1.

I believe in writing lawmakers and spreading awareness, but people who are skeptical of the legislative/voting path have a point: Building things that are ungovernable plays a critical role in this process. Likely we need to do both.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#296

For those living in California: https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/e-mail-me A copy of my note if you would like a template: ``` Dear Senator Feinstein, I am deeply disappointed with your support of the EARN IT act and am expressing my deep concern and disapproval of such a bill. Congruent with the recent report released by Stanford, I am expressing my deep disappointment in your sponsorship of the EAR…

I write to all my Democrat reps (I live in a solidly blue state) and get shit all nothing in response to positions that go against the mainstream leftist positions. I still do it because... eh, why not, but I know it has zero value. It's sad.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#297
post #292
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people seem incapable of understanding the existential threat to free society and democracy posed by limiting everyone's ability to communicate private thoughts. The existential threat this bill poses to free society and democracy is exactly why they're supporting it. It's not some accidental side effect. They're opposed to the existence of free society and democracy because it limits government power, which…

Free society means limited government, and the only way for the government to be in favor of that is for the government to vote against its own interests. I would argue that a free society protects people’s rights, and this is impossible without a strong government. As for voting against its own interests, the government in a true democracy is quite literally the will of the people. We get what we vote for. So if peo…

Depends on definition of „people’s rights“.

If you want to ensure very basic rights, small government is fine. If you want affirmative action and all that jazz, then you’ll need big government. That will likely abuse tools meant for good to make society not free anymore.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#298
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far for this type of laws she always have a canned response essentially saying "I know better than you". Anyway I emailed her, and encourage everyone do so. Not doing anything, by assuming it is pointless is a self fulfilling prophecy. I wish somebody younger would replace her :(

Having peeked behind the political shroud on occasion (and still by no means an expert), I think people overestimate the complexity of the US political system. Most politicians are not imposing some personal beliefs, they are just representing whichever voice their staffers/office hears most often. And, even for a senator, there aren't that many people who actually call to talk to a staffer. The ones that do usually…

Small business owners banded together to lobby WA state offices, regional offices, etc in the form of letters, calls, emails, and social media, and what that amounted to was having the 2nd most harsh lockdowns / business closures with zero financial compensation from the state.

Gov. Inslee and the Democrats below him had absolutely zero desire to engage in discussing concepts about how to safely keep small businesses open, even when we noted everything Gov. Polis (D-CO) was doing to try and balance things out.

All Inslee cared about was driving one number (COVID cases) down as much as possible to the exclusion of everything else. No amount of lobbying mattered.

If it drove any sort of policy... it had a backwards effect at best. All while huge corporations in our state like Microsoft and Amazon generated record revenues and drove their stock prices up.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second amendment, like abortion, is a political wedge issue used by politicians to wield against their opponents. You’re not going to replicate that with issues requiring more nuance and that cannot be used as emotional cudgels.

I think the lack of nuance employed by both 1A and 2A communities has been a strength. Nuance allows compromise, and compromise allows incrementalism. It's a classic fascist play. It's also a classic politician play to get people lost in the details so that no one truly understands their intent, i.e. "never let a good crisis go to waste". I'm willing to be proven wrong, however.

>> Nuance allows compromise, and compromise allows incrementalism.

Correct. So-called "pragmatism" and constant compromise is how we got into a ton of the messes we are in right now.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we all know Excepting the approval of end to end encryption and residential zoning, pretty much every problem thread on HN is littered with comments about how we need more regulation and laws to solve X or Y or Z. Wanting the "good guys" to have more power is pretty much the default response on here nowadays. I remember earlier- including before I had signed up for an account- when HN was much more libertarian,…

disclaimer: I am not American, and know nothing about American politics. I think all these start around Trump's administration. Trump start calling some media/social media as fake news, and some media/social media start censoring his supporter. After seeing the worse effects of misleading information, many free-speech-supporter back off alot.

> After seeing the worse effects of misleading information, many free-speech-supporter back off alot.

Rather democracy supporters back off…

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