GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers • Hacker News Board

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#291

Post by chroem- » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 5:11 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #290

chroem- wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of my comments have been made to break through the HN echo chamber, and if I can objectively demonstrate my hypothesis that lopsided moderation is reinforcing that same echo chamber, then the entire notion of the restrictions being due to supposed violations of the guidelines is a moot point. My initial thinking is to use a text classifier to assign political alignments, or lack thereof, to HN comments. From ther…

> All of my comments have been made to break through the HN echo chamber You could justify anything that way. That is the sort of thing garden-variety trolls come up with. > then the entire notion of the restrictions being due to supposed violations of the guidelines is a moot point That doesn't follow from your premise at all. Edit: btw, I thought I'd deleted this - I think it failed to go through because of a netwo…

Dang, it's your choice. We can all learn something from this small scale experiment and come out a little more well informed on HN's community dynamics, or we can let it grow into something larger. Again, totally up to you.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#292

Post by vba616 » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 5:26 AM UTC

9935c101ab17a66 wrote: post #288

vba616 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People were defending it by claiming that the protestors were using swastikas to call out the Canadian government as being like Nazis. How do you know what's going on? Are you there?

If that was actually the case — they are asserting the Canadian government are literal Nazis — that's offensively stupid. It's also kind of a convenient excuse, and probably the only way you could positively 'spin' displaying such a blatant hate symbol. We both know that's not the real reason they are displaying it though. Organizations and governments are frequently accused of being the second coming of Hitler's Nat…

>Are you really asking me if I'm embedded in a protest movement that has defaced the Terry Fox statue and raided a homeless shelter?

>That doesn't exactly fit with the narrative you presented

dang, this (subthread & whole thread) is all kinds of fucked up, please take a look.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#293

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 1:44 PM UTC

chroem- wrote: post #291

dang wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of my comments have been made to break through the HN echo chamber You could justify anything that way. That is the sort of thing garden-variety trolls come up with. > then the entire notion of the restrictions being due to supposed violations of the guidelines is a moot point That doesn't follow from your premise at all. Edit: btw, I thought I'd deleted this - I think it failed to go through because of a netwo…

Dang, it's your choice. We can all learn something from this small scale experiment and come out a little more well informed on HN's community dynamics, or we can let it grow into something larger. Again, totally up to you.

[deleted]

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#294

Post by halostatue » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

cal5k wrote: post #220

halostatue wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please remember that whatever you think you’re learning about the economics of the trucking business, the people involved in this represent less than 10% of the truckers in Canada — and they also have no clue how little their protest matters as it is the _American_ mandate preventing the moronic holdouts from crossing the the border.

You should seek to understand before parroting talking points like this. First, federal jurisdiction includes: mandating vaccine passports at the border, firing employees in federally-regulated industries that are unvaccinated, and preventing unvaccinated Canadians from being able to travel via plane or train domestically. There is also evidence to suggest that the Canadian government pressured the US government into…

Oh, I _do_ understand. I just happen to realize that the people who claim that there is "zero science to support vaccine passports or other restrictions, and frankly there never was" do not know the first thing that they’re talking about. There is substantial evidence in both epidemiological data _and_ in socio-psychological data that all of the measures taken over the last year have worked (and it is, in fact, the waffling inconsistency and grift of populist governments like Doug Ford’s which have caused the waves to slope the way that they have).

Amongst governments that have been driven by science and not by pseudo-scientific bullshit covering crypto-capitalist garbage (like New Zealand), the subsequent waves have been smaller and more contained—and they have _not_ returned to the levels of lockdowns required. What makes vaccine passports required are people who refuse to give the first damned care about their fellow citizens. AND THEY WORK. Vaccination appointment went _up_ when SAQ implemented vaccine passport requirements.

There are no charter rights being violated either by the lockdowns or by vaccine mandates. Your statement about "minority rights" is extremely disingenuous, as minority rights are not about people who _choose_ not to do something based on misinformation and disinformation, but on characteristics of who they are (skin colour, Indigenous, etc.), where they are from, the languages they speak, their gender and/or orientation, the culture from which they hail, and/or religions that they practice (and courts tend _not_ to pay much attention to any claim of minority status without historical evidence of discrimination against claimed minorities). The assholes in the Truck Tantrum are — by and large — WASPy conspiracy believers. They are the exact _opposite_ of minority, and exactly why they need to be laughed out of town.

I have no problem with them protesting. I also have no problem with laughing at them because they are claiming things which are demonstrably false and are whining over loss of privilege as if it were the same as real discrimination. People who _choose_ to be antisocial like the Flu Truck Convoy jackasses don’t get to claim that they’re discriminated against because society tells them to take a hike.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#295

Post by halostatue » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 6:39 PM UTC

ls15 wrote: post #250

halostatue wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccine mandates are lawful and constitutional, and well supported by science.

Btw., the SCOTUS has already blocked nationwide vaccine mandates in the US: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/13/politics/supreme-court-va... > In freezing a lower court opinion that allowed the regulation to go into effect nationwide, the majority sent a clear message the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, charged with protecting workplace safety, overstepped its authority. In contrast, the justices said t…

We’re talking about Canada. I don’t care what SCOTUS says because it has less than zero jurisdiction over Canada, where all of the lockdowns, restrictions, and vaccine mandates have _already_ passed multiple levels of constitutional review.

Strictly speaking, SCOTUS erred in its decision (other vaccine mandates in the past _have_ passed constitutional muster), but that’s unsurprising given that there are no thoughtful conservatives on the bench. Even Scalia, one of the most ignoble Justices to ever serve on SCOTUS was smarter than any other conservative on the bench now and would _likely_ have disagreed with this decision. Most of the recent justices have no business being on the court either as wholly unqualified or because of unconstitutional abrogation of duty by the legislative branch under Mitch McConnell.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#296

Post by halostatue » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

ls15 wrote: post #244

halostatue wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccine mandates are lawful and constitutional, and well supported by science.

Not for SARS-CoV-2 and especially not for the Omicron variant. It is laughably absurd.

Said like someone with an incorrect idée fixe instead of actually looking at (a) jurisdictions where they’ve worked (b) actual epidemiological and socio-psychological science. There are mistakes made by scientists during this pandemic (downplaying the efficacy of masks for months). Recommendations on vaccine mandates and vaccine passports aren’t one of them.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#297

Post by bastardoperator » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 9:50 PM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #283

bastardoperator wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following you. The Jews were forced to wear the star of David as a form of humiliation. The people today wearing them are doing it by choice and it's in poor taste.

People are being forced to wear masks as a form of humiliation. People are being forced to present their vaccine cards as a form of humiliation. People are choosing to wear stars of David as a comparison of the two. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

This is blatantly false, and the Jews didn't have a choice which is why no one takes these pretend victims seriously. If you're feeling humiliated that says more about you then it does the people that understand how simple barriers(masks) work. Thanks for the explanation, it's laughable at best.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#298

Post by FooBarBizBazz » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 10:48 PM UTC

bastardoperator wrote: post #297

GauntletWizard wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are being forced to wear masks as a form of humiliation. People are being forced to present their vaccine cards as a form of humiliation. People are choosing to wear stars of David as a comparison of the two. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

This is blatantly false, and the Jews didn't have a choice which is why no one takes these pretend victims seriously. If you're feeling humiliated that says more about you then it does the people that understand how simple barriers(masks) work. Thanks for the explanation, it's laughable at best.

You have to wonder if they know how absurd their comparisons are.

It's weird how people want so, so badly to be in some counterculture. And to be "owed" something, in the moral accounting. That Green Day song plays in my head, with the music video: "I Want to be a Minority!"

I guess we sort of have a word for this, ressentiment? It's close, but not exactly.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#299

Post by GauntletWizard » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 3:21 AM UTC

bastardoperator wrote: post #297

GauntletWizard wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are being forced to wear masks as a form of humiliation. People are being forced to present their vaccine cards as a form of humiliation. People are choosing to wear stars of David as a comparison of the two. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

This is blatantly false, and the Jews didn't have a choice which is why no one takes these pretend victims seriously. If you're feeling humiliated that says more about you then it does the people that understand how simple barriers(masks) work. Thanks for the explanation, it's laughable at best.

Jews were allowed to move around without their stars of David - in the ghettos, literally the origination of the term. Jews were not allowed to take part in wider public life without them.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#300

Post by prepend » Sun, Feb 06, 2022, 5:56 AM UTC

mikeyouse wrote: post #233

prepend wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But “waving swastikas” isn’t very interesting unless it signifies Nazis right? It’s not bad to use swastikas to critique governments if you think they’re acting like Nazis. The intent of swastikas in that situation isn’t pro-nazi or anti-Semitic. I’m not sure what real Nazis in Germany being anti-vax has to do with our conversation. RFKJr is anti-vax too, what does that matter about this convoy. I was trying to figur…

Comparing a government mandate for international truckers to get a free, safe vaccine during a pandemic to anything nazis did is deeply offensive.

It may be offensive to you, but it’s orders of magnitude different from being a nazi or neo nazi or nazi sympathizer.

Nazis were/are violent sociopaths who are a threat to people. They’re scary. People making nazi metaphors and deeply offending you aren’t a threat to people. That’s not newsworthy to me.

It’s like the people who think the Soup Nazi episodes of Seinfeld are deeply offensive. Because they compare delicious soup to Nazis. If TV guide reported that nazi paraphernalia was in those episodes it would be misleading. Seinfeld wasn’t pro nazi and there was no risk of them doing nazi things.