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U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

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Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#291

Post by saalweachter »

dotnet00 wrote: post #25
garren wrote: post #15

I wonder why a pig heart rather than one from another primate? The article mentions a baboon heart in an earlier attempt at xenotransplantation with an infant. Is a pig’s heart as, or more, compatible or is it more a matter of availability?

Pigs are very anatomically similar to humans but due to being a food source there were probably also fewer ethical concerns compared to using primates.

It's really quite fascinating -- they aren't particularly close to us genetically, but because they're a similar sized mammal with an omnivore diet, you can teach their macro-biology from the same textbook.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#292

Post by JetAlone »

mlyle wrote: post #285
JetAlone wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this one, yes. From my experience of learning about the God that I pray to, I highly doubt He's sending me commenters asking me one liners about seat belts and dialysis to convince me that the monk I admire was wrong, and that I should change my mindset to become more like the atheists I'm surrounded by. Rowboats, helicopters etc. in a flood, prima facia, seem to be more in character as a deliverance from…

> Rowboats, helicopters etc. in a flood, prima facia, seem to be more in character as a deliverance from a natural disaster. Sure. But how we define "abomination" comes down to what we're used to. Is taking a cheap statin that will improve your length of life subverting God's will? If we're saying something is resource intensive and you don't give much back to the world in comparison to the resources used to prolong…

>how we define "abomination" comes down to what we're used to.

If a person believes scripture is only a cultural document and not divine revelation then that would be the definition of abomination. I have to personally disagree with that assessment.

>Is taking a cheap statin that will improve your length of life subverting God's will?

It could be, depending on what it means in the bigger picture. I believe we know very little of God's will in any given moment because of how fallen we are. We benefit from being humble and willing to submit to it, using our provided minds well but never allowing them to be the final authority.

>that's an economic / purely utilitarian argument

I place economics and utilitarianism as a subordinate agent to the higher principles. A utilitarian framework is one of many that can help me see a stronger meaning in letting someone else have the resources, and accepting death if it appears to be the due time for it anyways.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#293

Post by [deleted] »

XorNot wrote: post #218
Blikkentrekker wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was only recently acquainted with the idea that there are many people on the internet who become very angry that some people eat dog meat, but do not with say cow meat or pig meat. — I find this rather strange and do not understand this.

Dogs are carnivores. It is incredibly inefficient to raise dogs for meat, because you have to feed them meat to do so. This pretty obviously isn't what people are principally reacting too, but it is massively understated when people get into "why do we eat A and not B?"

[deleted]

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#295

Post by JCharante »

theplumber wrote: post #282
Sporktacular wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird how this is said without a shred of sympathy or concern for an intelligent, helpless creature. Weirder how it can be said without a sympathetic or concerned response. I hope we can someday move beyond seeing animals as a mere resource.

I find such a remark weird given that "you" are serving such "helpless" creatures at your favorite restaurant. I think it's the ultimate hypocrisy. Not to mention that we have a situation where helpless creatures are sacrificed for the science/common good of human beings and the other situation where they are murdered for the taste of their meat & bones.

Well I'm vegan and I find it disheartening how they can talk about a Pig like they can talk about a cement brick.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#296

Post by sinuhe69 »

samwillis wrote: post #32

When I was a teenager there was a novel adapted for TV by the BBC called “Pig Heart Boy”. It explored the emotional impact of this type of procedure on a teenager and the response from the public, both good and bad. I don’t remember much about it but it looks like it won a BAFTA. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_Heart_Boy

So it’s a real thing then! And I just thought “what would people say if they know the guy has a pig heart?” “A pig heart guy” rings truly bad

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#298

Post by JCharante »

frozenport wrote: post #263
Sporktacular wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird how this is said without a shred of sympathy or concern for an intelligent, helpless creature. Weirder how it can be said without a sympathetic or concerned response. I hope we can someday move beyond seeing animals as a mere resource.

I don't see them as intelligent

Is intelligence really a good reason to discriminate though? Isn't that what *ists used to say about other groups of people? Do we experiment on people with learning disorders? (Well I think they used to but they stopped)

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#299

Post by Gigachad »

actually_a_dog wrote: post #209
tricky wrote: post #26

You might be asking, why a pig? I don't know, but forever ago I wrote software for a cardiovascular imaging lab and pigs were their primary test subjects. I was like, "why pigs?" and the PI was like, "Imaging-wise, pig hearts aren't too different from humans. Plus, we can give them a heart attack in the scanner and not go to jail. Some labs use dogs. I just can't do that."

> "Imaging-wise, pig hearts aren't too different from humans. Plus, we can give them a heart attack in the scanner and not go to jail. Some labs use dogs. I just can't do that." I wonder if they'd feel differently if they thought about how pigs are more intelligent than dogs.

Basically all of society is about conveniently ignoring ethics in illogical ways because it provides immense inconvenience and reward. I'm sure they could convince themselves that giving a pig a heart attack is just as evil as giving one to a dog, but then they wouldn't be able to perform studies which will save millions of lives in the future.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#300

Post by s1artibartfast »

nonameiguess wrote: post #280
redanddead wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it about primates that make them expensive?

Supply? Pigs are both abundant and easily found in the United States. There aren't primate breeding lots. You need to go into a jungle to find them.

Down voted because this is absolutely not true. No western research facility uses wild primates this way. They are bred in captivity for a number of reasons, both practical, ethical, and environmental.
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