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Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

edmontonjournal.com

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Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#291

Post by zo1 »

jquery wrote: post #134
hrhrhrhrhr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Violating NAP requires taking some action, you can't just "aggress" by not doing anything.

Quoted post unavailable.

The NAP is very basic and fundamental (in stark contrast to all the laws we have on book). And in order to be so and not open to too-much interpretation, it has a very narrow and explicit scope that has emergent properties. If you expand it you're back into "government" and "interpretation" territory and have made the NAP meaningless.

Just look at this thread and all the disagreement about vaccine policy; even without the NAP at play and with supposed "social contract" and "laws" and "constitutions" and "UN Declaration of human rights" we still can't agree how to coexist and deal with this pandemic. Meanwhile, the authoritarian CCP/Chinese government is handling it just fine, and probably laughing their asses off right now at the rest of the world's inability to deal with this. The rules are currently stacked in favor of bullies, whether that's an overreaching government like Canada in this case, China and international law that allows it to not be punished for this world-scale disaster, or everyday bullies that are effectively victim-blaming people who are discriminated against because of their medical choices.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#292

Post by q1w2 »

ukj wrote: post #147

Quoted post unavailable.

Covid is now endemic - that is the scientific consensus.

Are you suggesting that we permanently give up our right to decide what medications to take?

Taking a vaccine is a forced medical procedure for the benefit of someone other than the individual. I'm fully vaccinated and boosted, but I recognize that effectively forcing this upon people by denying them fundamental rights and services, is not ethical, and sets an intolerable precedent.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#293

Post by dekhn »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #80
NoblePublius wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an Antarctic research station of entirely triple vaxxed people that is on complete lockdown now because most of them have Covid. I know 22 people who have gotten positive tests in the last two weeks, all vaccinated. Sports leagues practically 100% vaccinated and dozens and dozens and dozens of players out for Covid. I do not believe for one second any public health data today claiming only 1/5 new cases are v…

Wait, do I understand this correctly that because you have heard of cases happening in vaccinated people, without studying them as broad populations, you think there isn’t a statistical difference in vaccinated and unvaccinated people as a population? Why?

While I understand where you are coming from, pretty much all the observational evidence is pointing to vaccines not being particularly effective against omicron, which seems to explain the data we are seeing (massive surge in infections and hospitalizations). That alone is enough information to reasonably conclude that the vaccine does not provide a high level of protection against omicron, even if we are nto doing a large-N population comparison.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#294

Post by hrhrhrhrhr »

jquery wrote: post #261
hrhrhrhrhr wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, NAP is pretty clear. It's just some people treat it as a silver bullet, when it's only a fundamental building block. Libertarians are not against having contractual jurisdictions which would mandate being vaccinated on a certain territory, as long as you can quit that jurisdiction at any time. It's not clear that getting vaccinated would stop you from spreading the virus though.

> as long as you can quit that jurisdiction at any time. Nobody is going door to door and arresting unvaccinated people. It’s not like the anti-choice law in Texas that criminalizes two people working together to stop a woman from being pregnant against her will. You still have your freedom under the NAP. But as soon as you present a threat to infect other people by being unvaccinated, there are reasonable restrictio…

NAP is about physical violence. The problem with your way of thinking is that it lets you interpret whatever you feel like as "violence".

Should infecting others with a flu also be considered violence? What about blasphemy? What about just being mean?

People have very varying opinions on whether spreading COVID should be considered violence, hence contractual jurisdictions.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#295

Post by middleclick »

peteradio wrote: post #260
middleclick wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not correct. Here is the official source: https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2... Please cite your sources.

That is all people lumped together. Like I said remove "at-risk".

Cool.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-s...

Which groups are not "at-risk" here? What age? Because it seems like there is a significant % of the population in groups other than 80+ that are in the hospital.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#296

Post by xyzzyz »

dekhn wrote: post #278
bmeski wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to misunderstand the entire reason the U.S. was created. Don't like it, leave. Seriously.

Note that the Supreme Court validated Jacobson vs. Massachusetts, supporting the right of the government to mandate vaccines (remember, George Washington mandated vaccines for his troops) and showing that the power of the state ultimately trumps the freedoms of people. Honestly, you're making arguments (in multiple comments) that make you look petulant, rather than providing a reasonable argument againt vaccine manda…

No post body was provided.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#297

Post by [deleted] »

mwattsun wrote: post #246
bmeski wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Item 1 of the Nuremberg Code. "The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowle…

The Code has not been officially accepted as law by any nation or as official ethics guidelines by any association. In fact, the Code's reference to Hippocratic duty to the individual patient and the need to provide information was not initially favored by the American Medical Association. Wikipedia First, you would have to find a jurisdiction that officially accepted the Nuremberg code and move there, second you wou…

[deleted]

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#298

Post by [deleted] »

baskethead wrote: post #207
maxerickson wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no evidence that vaccination is hampering immune response. Among those infected with Omicron, hospitalization and intensive care rates are much higher in unvaccinated...

“There’s no evidence” is the official weasel words of the pandemic. https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/the-phrase-no-evidence...

[deleted]

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#299

Post by dekhn »

xyzzyz wrote: post #296
dekhn wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the Supreme Court validated Jacobson vs. Massachusetts, supporting the right of the government to mandate vaccines (remember, George Washington mandated vaccines for his troops) and showing that the power of the state ultimately trumps the freedoms of people. Honestly, you're making arguments (in multiple comments) that make you look petulant, rather than providing a reasonable argument againt vaccine manda…

Quoted post unavailable.

The penalty in the case is irrelevant to the nature of the government's power. Also equating vaccines to apartheid is unrealistic and in poor taste.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#300

Post by Radim »

mercy_dude wrote: post #175

Where is the court system? The court system has been very much in lines with these stupidities we have been seeing around mandates and so on, which makes me make a much more cynical claim. Leaders like Justin Trudeau don’t give a damn about science/progress and public health and well being for example. If they did, we wouldn’t be this far along the crisis and still be talking about this. My thinking is they are setti…

It's pretty short-sighted, too.

I was born and lived under one rule of tyranny (communist Czechoslovakia), and the legal & judicial professions suffered tremendously there. In fact, they were among the first to go, replaced by something truly heinous.

Like, what do these judges and lawyers who keep silent expect will happen, once basic civil liberties & human rights are disbanded? (no matter whether disbanded directly or through some bullshit round-about "we didn't kill you, we just hired mercenaries / didn't let you live / work / travel; if you don't like it why didn't you emigrate?")

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