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iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

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Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#291

Post by ClumsyPilot »

laurent92 wrote: post #167
KarlKemp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I wish I had a list of everyone parroting the wisdom that "it's all about the size of the lens, a smartphone can never be as good as a DSLR" so as to ignore their future opinions. Camera phones now beat cameras worth thousands of dollars with better software and larger R&D budgets, at least in low light performance and color gamut. Closely related: "It's impossible to just 'enhance' an image to make a license…

> It's impossible to just 'enhance' an image to make a license plate readable. Well, a phone can reconstruct this license plate, and in fact any license plate in lieu of this one! And invent a new one! Which is worrisome for justice. Presenting proof, that was uploaded to servers, horodated and geostamped, won’t be enough in a court of law. Anyone can answer: “What if the iPhone recreated and inferred the presence of…

> This face, is it real? The distance, is it repositionned?

Deepfakes, robocalls and Caller ID and voice impersonation, automatic ML in photos, if this train keeps going, we won't know what's real at all. I am struggling to see how we will function.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#292

Post by numpad0 »

floatboth wrote: post #181
KarlKemp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to note that recent iPhones contain the same M1 chip as last year's MacBooks. They are not limited by processing power. DSLR and mirrorless cameras have better optical properties. But they are held back by starting too late and being much worse when it comes to software. These cameras also are limited by their CPUs, which are a decade behind, and by their batteries, which are much smaller but expected…

But that CPU shouldn't really do anything other than shoveling raw sensor data to flash as fast as possible. All the processing can happen on your workstation (or an iPad or whatever).

You don't want to shovel 12MP 14-bit-effective multi-frame raw pixel data along its metadata into the flash...

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#293

Post by mynameisvlad »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #288
shawnz wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand the goal of using ML augmentation in camera phones is to capture what the eye sees. It's to compensate for the limitations of the hardware which on its own is not able to produce a true-to-eye result. You seem to be implying that the goal is to improve the photo to be better than reality but I don't think that's the case.

> You seem to be implying that the goal is to improve the photo to be better than reality but I don't think that's the case. I think it is, Afterall that's what all the Instagram filters are for, and that's where most photos end up

That's not even remotely close to AI/ML processing, and also is something you have been able to accomplish-- manually or with presets-- in Lightroom for ages.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#294

Post by m-p-3 »

matsemann wrote: post #12

I hate how much phones lately alters the images. Of course it most of the time makes the images look better, and cameras are a big selling point on a phone. But I don't like how my photos of people suddenly have a filter applied to the faces, how a picture of leaves during fall have vibrance exaggerated, how the sky looks clearer than it really did.

I'd hate to see a photo altered to the point where it could have a significant outcome in a trial. Imagine if the ML improvement lead to a photo where something shows up that wasn't there or vice-versa.

How can you trust the picture taken if it might not reflect reality?

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#295

Post by vmception »

root_axis wrote: post #262

Why does everyone automatically assume this explanation is correct? Based on the photo, it looks to me like a real leaf in the foreground, probably having fallen at the perfect time to create this photo. I would be curious to hear Apple's explanation on this...

> Why does everyone automatically assume this explanation is correct?

because they want to. thats how the internet works right now, it mirrors your greatest gripe or nightmare, which is exactly when you should have the most skepticism.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#296

Post by mynameisvlad »

alkonaut wrote: post #136
IgorPartola wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory what prevents me from using a huge lens and sensor on a DSLR or a mirrorless camera and then using the same advanced software but now running on a desktop computer or a server that is many times more powerful than a smartphone to do advanced post processing?

Nothing at all. It’s honestly surprising that it’s not a bigger thing. Guessing what stops you is that the Apple team that makes camera software has a budget that makes the Nikon pc app team look quite small.

Cameras don't have DoF sensors which I believe the phone uses in its processing to know if there's a subject in frame.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#297

Post by krapp »

vmception wrote: post #295
root_axis wrote: post #262

Why does everyone automatically assume this explanation is correct? Based on the photo, it looks to me like a real leaf in the foreground, probably having fallen at the perfect time to create this photo. I would be curious to hear Apple's explanation on this...

> Why does everyone automatically assume this explanation is correct? because they want to. thats how the internet works right now, it mirrors your greatest gripe or nightmare, which is exactly when you should have the most skepticism.

Except the leaf isn't so close to the foreground that it completely obscures the person's head, and there is clearly other distortion/artifacting in the image. Something more than that is going on.

Useful skepticism actually takes evidence into account, rather than dismissing claims at a glance, or because "thats how the internet works right now."

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#298

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

wholinator2 wrote: post #204
Zak wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not accurate to compare the capacity in Amp-hours because the Nikon EN-EL15C battery has twice the voltage (two Li-ion cells in series) of a single-cell smartphone battery.

As well I'd like to add the thought that the smart phone could be running all kinds of battery draining things in the background. So actual battery life depends not only mAh but how efficiently the device uses its capacity.

And the camera batteries are replaceable. Quickly. In the field. There are also "battery grips" that have extra battery slots in them and automatically switch between the batteries. The camera never has to sit on a charger, only a spare battery does.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#299

Post by ClumsyPilot »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #293
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to be implying that the goal is to improve the photo to be better than reality but I don't think that's the case. I think it is, Afterall that's what all the Instagram filters are for, and that's where most photos end up

That's not even remotely close to AI/ML processing, and also is something you have been able to accomplish-- manually or with presets-- in Lightroom for ages.

I mean to illustrate the attitude of a typical user, not technology
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