How to Save a Ski Town • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#291

Post by Schiendelman » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:56 AM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #289

Schiendelman wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a normal take of the case, but not what the appellate court decision was about. SCOTUS ignored the real issue - the apartments - and focused on the industrial uses in order to ignore the apartment issue.

Actually, we are both wrong. SCOTUS did explicitly address the apartment buildings and gave what to many contemporary eyes would be an absurd judgement: "With particular reference to apartment houses, it is pointed out that the development of detached house sections is greatly retarded by the coming of apartment houses, which has sometimes resulted in destroying the entire section for private house purposes; that in…

Yes - they made up a way to avoid the explicitly racist appellate case entirely, by claiming housing was a nuisance without saying the real reason the city considered it a nuisance out loud.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#292

Post by zwirbl » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 8:27 AM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #272

zwirbl wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People would have their knees repaired, then sell ar a loss

Wider under foot is harder on the knees actually, especially on groomed runs.

Sure, but long, straight skis are harder to control, causing more accidents for less skilled riders. Many people skiing reasonably well today would have a really hard time using classic material from the 80s-90s

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#293

Post by swader999 » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

zwirbl wrote: post #292

swader999 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wider under foot is harder on the knees actually, especially on groomed runs.

Sure, but long, straight skis are harder to control, causing more accidents for less skilled riders. Many people skiing reasonably well today would have a really hard time using classic material from the 80s-90s

Yeah that is true. I still take my skinny ones out a couple times a season. They turn quick and you get to feel the depth on the powder turns.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#294

Post by drewpc » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #190

drewpc wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner has lived in Crested Butte for 18 years and I just came back from a weekend there. Restaurant prices are already high and each one has "help wanted" signs out front because nobody can work for minimum wage and not even afford to live there. Raising prices of a $20 cocktail to $25 does not allow the restaurant to pay hourly, local workers enough money to afford a house that's over $800k or rent that's over…

Resort towns should be considered more like cruise ships. I wouldn't expect a deckhand to afford a condo on a oceanliner, but if their labor is needed it seems its not an issue for the employer to provide housing. Plenty of industries provide housing for their workers. If housing is such an issue for labor to cover itself, capital should just pay for what its labor requires to exist. Somehow along the line we went fr…

Many of the ski resort companies do offer housing, which is great. There are two primary issues with that at the moment: not enough housing and, the bigger one, when your housing is directly tied to your job what happens if you are fired? Colorado, for example, is an "at will" state--that means someone can be let go for any or no reason with no notice. If the company is providing housing, then the person is forced to up and move...but where do they move to?

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#295

Post by AtlasBarfed » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

space_fountain wrote: post #174

gnarcoregrizz wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a problem that'll fix itself if no businesses can hire. Unfortunately it will probably be on a long time frame.

I think part of the problem is that while maybe wages will be pushed up a bit, eventually the equilibrium is still a situation we won't like. Like long commutes and bad living situations.

Yes the solution is to make minimum wage 100 grand a Year

The elites love when shortage increases their asset values, but increase wages? What are we, communists?

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#296

Post by odessacubbage » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:54 AM UTC

asdff wrote: post #288

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... which of course shows another, arguably deeper, aspect of the problem: the general share of GDP that goes to labor, particularly lower paid labor, and how that compares with increases in the cost of fundamental things like housing. Somehow, we've ended up with an economy and a culture where someone can work 40 hours a week but not be paid enough to afford a lot of what our culture also assumes to be basic. This i…

What is tough is that most other things are generally not that expensive in many of these expensive places. It's still roughly $14 entrees $9 appetizers and $8 bud lights in many of these expensive cost of living areas just like downtown midwestern cities anywhere else these days from what I've been finding myself personally. Other than the bay area or nyc where you really might see a costly big mac on the menu, it f…

since you bring up big macs it is perhaps notable that mcdonalds was actually priced out of aspen.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#297

Post by jseban » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

ako wrote: post #290

jseban wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These stories don't really make sense to me though, why are single elderly people living in the home that housed their whole family with children, now that the children have moved out? Shouldn't a family home be used for a family? And shouldn't prime location housing in the middle of big cities be used for the people that contribute most and are most needed there? I think it's perfectly normal for a single senior cit…

Wait till you’re old and live in a house filled with memories. And especially when you’re older, you should be able to rely on your friends and family around you, and not be forced to move to a new area where you know nobody, and cannot ask anyone for help. I actually like the idea that you buy a house, pay it off and keep it in the family for next generations. I bought it, it’s mine, I paid for it, and now some else…

If you like that idea, that's fine, and sure it's "nice" from some point of view. But it's also obviously inefficient and therefor it will cost extra, and it makes sense for the country to have those incentives.

If you are promoting the traditional way of the family home for generations, then your kids and grandkids would live in the same house for that to make sense, not having an empty huge house for 1 single divorced boomer

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#298

Post by asdff » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 6:41 AM UTC

SwagGrocery wrote: post #234

asdff wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resort towns should be considered more like cruise ships. I wouldn't expect a deckhand to afford a condo on a oceanliner, but if their labor is needed it seems its not an issue for the employer to provide housing. Plenty of industries provide housing for their workers. If housing is such an issue for labor to cover itself, capital should just pay for what its labor requires to exist. Somehow along the line we went fr…

This is where it's headed. The complete Disney-ification of ski towns. 2 or 3 mega resort companies will control the entire economy surrounding the resort: hotels, restaurants, spas, theaters, etc. Some of the amenities will operate at a loss, but their presence will push up the value of the higher margin amenities.

It's where it used to be from the start ironically for most of these resort towns.