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Without parental leave I might be dead

nytimes.com

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Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#291

Post by klyrs »

sershe wrote: post #197
dang wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Please also don't break the site guidelines by going on about downvotes and certainly not by getting nasty about them. Your comment was correctly downvoted because it was a major step further into flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Ok, I admit the edit could have been done better. I'll stop pursuing this path :). However, it was downvoted before the edit for expressing an unpopular, but IMHO factually justified (i.e. anti-natalist) position. I think that was a fair point to make in a discussion of paid parental leave. Again, I don't care about points. I want to hear from people who disagree with the original comment ;)

> factually justified (i.e. anti-natalist) position... I want to hear from people who disagree with the original comment

Does your mom agree with this "factually justified" position? She might have more patience with you than you'll find among strangers on the internet.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#292

Post by orangepurple »

endisneigh wrote: post #125
lotsofpulp wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birthrates among poor people are way down: https://www.statista.com/statistics/562541/birth-rate-by-pov... There may be some effect of the very poorest people having children for the purposes of benefits, but the vast majority of women will have fewer kids once they get access to birth control and financial independence.

Birthrate isn't my point. Per your chart birth rates are down for everyone. The fact remains that poor people have more children. And more to the original point, people aren't being forced to leave their children.

> The fact remains that poor people have more children.

Not quite. $ rich people can't afford time with children.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#293

Post by jensensbutton »

mbesto wrote: post #213
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

> Its just not beneficial for anyone. I'm personally a proponent of parental leave, but I'll answer this one point. "Forcing women" back into work after pregnancy is an attempt my mothers to minimize wage decreases. All of the evidence for wage discrepancies between male and female is due largely to women's role of motherhood. https://bfi.uchicago.edu/insight/research-summary/motherhood...

> is an attempt my mothers to minimize wage decreases

There's a lot of evidence around wage discrepancies, but I have never heard anyone claim that it's the _mothers_ who are forcing themselves back to work. That seems like a huge stretch and doesn't align with anything I've seen before.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#294

Post by ThinkBeat »

From the US live in Norway now.

In Norway there are a lot of political parties that can matter. All depends on the election. Some grow, some dont, new ones are added, old ones go away.

That is a dynamic that is entirely missing in the US.

We have parties in the European left and we have parties on the European right, parties in the middle, green party etc etc.

I try to get people to understand that we do not have a single party that is far right enough to compare with the Democrats in the US. (Discussing the Republicans is just hard).

There is no left in US politics. and you could say that there is no right in Norway.

The party considered to be "far right" would never think about advocating doing away with universal healthcare.

The same for our main right party (Høyre == Right) would not attempt such a thing either.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#295

Post by jensensbutton »

bradleyjg wrote: post #209
dralley wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things that shouldn't need to be explained, even to 20-something tech bros who've never had a child themselves.

Of course not. Nothing needs to be explained or justified anymore. We have an entire generation so fully confident in the absolute correctness and obviousness of every single iota of their many strongly held moral opinions that even asking for an explanation offends them. And they can’t understand why they keep on failing to achieve their policy goals. PS: I don’t think there were too many <= 19 year olds signing up…

OK, please explain how fixing housing, healthcare, education will remove the need for parental leave. It's your argument, motivate it.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#296

Post by kingsloi »

conductr wrote: post #258
kingsloi wrote: post #217

I literally worked for most of my child's 8 month life, from her ICU room, I worked the morning of her 9 surgeries, I worked through the genetic diagnosis, I worked through being told my child has brain bleeds, neuroblastoma, is deaf, re-intubated, etc... if my insurance wasn't tied to my work, I would've quit in a heartbeat. I'm convinced I'll go to my grave with working that time being my biggest regret in life. I…

US? FMLA? Just curious if you felt you couldn't take it due to company culture or if it just didn't apply to you? Either way, a horrible experience for you I know. I’ve been fortunate to work with folks that are family friendly when things like this arise. I can’t even imagine opening my laptop while in the hospital and in that headspace.

Yeah, in the US. I had 2 weeks-ish off total and random days/hours when there were big procedures, but was "saving" the rest for when my wife returned to work. My child was chronically sick (but worse than I/we knew), and I had no idea what the future had in store for us, I was worried if I "used" it all, then I'd be forced to work from home and care for my child.

I have a great manager, who would've been ok with whatever, but there's only so much I was entitled too. I also had bills rolling in, so anything unpaid was out of the question. I'm sure I could've survived with being unpaid, but living off GoFundMe donations didn't sit well with me. Ultimately GoFundMe paid for her funeral.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#297

Post by kingsloi »

conductr wrote: post #278
sangnoir wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FMLA leave is unpaid. Not many people can afford to go through 8 months without income, especially with a child in the NICU.

Good point. Suppose I was assuming that wasn’t a factor here since they said they would have quit if not for employer based insurance.

If I didn't have to pay for medical, I likely could've survived on savings and GoFundMe.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#298

Post by nix23 »

jseban wrote: post #115
nix23 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>higher tax rates That's the secret sauce, and a smaller military >lower incomes That makes no sense, maybe don't sell your medicine for 10x more...but NO that would not be compatible with a pure capitalism >and smaller populations That's a NON argument

Lower incomes is a direct requirement of higher taxes.

Higher incomes is a direct requirement for higher living costs ;)

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#299

Post by yodsanklai »

mataug wrote: post #276

This is one of the reasons why I don't want to have kids in the US. - Paid parental leave is inadequate - Child care is obscenely expensive - Putting my child through a good school district might make me house-poor. - I'm not sure I can save my child from crippling Student debt without killing my retirement savings. - The looming climate disaster that my child might have to go through. Given all these factors, it doe…

> The looming climate disaster that my child might have to go through.

Climate disaster isn't an US thing. And it may strike Europe harder than the US.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#300

Post by beaconstudios »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #294

From the US live in Norway now. In Norway there are a lot of political parties that can matter. All depends on the election. Some grow, some dont, new ones are added, old ones go away. That is a dynamic that is entirely missing in the US. We have parties in the European left and we have parties on the European right, parties in the middle, green party etc etc. I try to get people to understand that we do not have a s…

It's really strange to think that the American left (AOC, Bernie) are fighting for such radical concepts as social healthcare, free education and paid maternity leave. I'm from the UK, the most capitalist European country and we had all three until we regressed on university fees thanks to our wonderful Conservative party.
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