Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

frontlinedefenders.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 362 posts

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#291

Post by helge9210 »

yonixw wrote: post #253
whimsicalism wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. Is it a police operation if it is conducted in occupied foreign territory or would that count as military action? > They are, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and many more... not some and not maybe. Is every Palestinian who voted for Hamas in the last elections permitted in Palestine in…

> Is every Palestinian who voted .. a terrorist as well? No. But at the same time, If Hamas hides military equipment in a news building where other civilians work, then Hamas is committing a war crime. And Israel has the right to attack this building while taking every action to minimize civilians bystanders casualties. As they did by giving 1hr notice.

> And Israel has the right

This kind of hides the fact, that a responsibility for war crimes is personal. Not everyone will be as lucky as Ariel Sharon who died before he was tried.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#292

Post by [deleted] »

pythonlion wrote: post #175
Quanttek wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any state abiding by the rule of law, human rights, and democracy needs to provide evidence proving such allegations beyond a reasonable doubt and enabling the victims to challenge such administrative decisions in court. If Israel wants to drop the pretense of democracy, so be it. But human rights and the rule of law are universal obligations under international law.

this is biased for countries which are not under conflict and don't get accused by the other side every other week

[deleted]

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#293

Post by golemiprague »

lacker wrote: post #194

This title is quite editorialized. The whole controversy is over whether these are human rights organizations as this website claims, or terrorist groups as the Israeli government claims. It should not be a surprise that the NSO group, as an Israeli company, is working against groups that the Israeli government considers to be terrorists.

It doesn't even matter if it is a terrorist organisation or not. The Arabs that call themselves "Palestinians" want to conquer and destroy Israel, it is clearly and explicitly written in the Hamas charter, the de facto "constitution" of Gaza. The ones in the west bank want the same thing but they hide behind calling it "the right of return", basically demanding that Israel will let about 10 million Arabs to "return" to Israel, or in other words, conquer it.

So basically Gaza and the Arabs in Judea and Samaria (the west bank) and many other Arab states in the region are enemy entities to the state of Israel, whether they use terrorism or just regular "legal" military operations and political activities. As such, there is no surprise Israel is spying after them like any country would do against their enemies, even if they are not terrorists.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#294

Post by jjcon »

VictorPath wrote: post #240
lacker wrote: post #194

This title is quite editorialized. The whole controversy is over whether these are human rights organizations as this website claims, or terrorist groups as the Israeli government claims. It should not be a surprise that the NSO group, as an Israeli company, is working against groups that the Israeli government considers to be terrorists.

> human rights organizations as this website claims, or terrorist groups as the Israeli government claims. These NGOs get funding from the European Union, and Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch condemned Israel outlawing these human rights NGOs - so it Israel against not just this magazine, but the EU, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch etc.

The EU and US etc are also bankrolling these israeli operations so im not really sure the funding argument holds up well here

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#295

Post by LegitShady »

ashtonkem wrote: post #286
LegitShady wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not your state, and your state wouldn't give you confidential evidence into a terrorism investigation either. You can imagine there are plenty of informants and intelligence taps to which the state doesn't want to give clues, right? Why do you think this foreign state isn't as capable of dismissing your demands as you are of saying 'tough' to them? That's the issue with your original 'tough' comment. It's just i…

> It's just internet bravado, and doesn't survive contact with reality. Okay, I’ve reached my patience limit with you. Go use ad hominems on other people, I’ve tired of your blatant abuse.

I'm sorry if finding out that national security of a foreign state trumps your demands for evidence in a terrorism investigation is so traumatizing you classify it as abuse.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#296

Post by LegitShady »

ashtonkem wrote: post #246
LegitShady wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

flipside of tough - you're demanding a foreign nation compromise its security so that you can feel better. You and your demands are nobody and nothing to a foreign state. So no. tough.

No, I’m demanding they support their allegations before killing people. Giving the state unfettered access to kill and jail god knows who based on unsupported allegations of terrorism is very dangerous territory, and any right thinking person should be wary of handing out that kind of power. Saying this is about making me “feel better” is pushing the limits of good faith discussion, don’t do that.

It's not your state, and this did go to court, you just weren't privy to the evidence because you're not a party involved in the investigation or the case, and have no security clearance in this foreign state to know the details.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#297

Post by joelbluminator »

helge9210 wrote: post #262
yonixw wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You are making an hypothetical based on orders. Which amount to nothing. 2) Searching google for "shock grenades on a girl israel" will show you first a Jewish Ultra-Orthodox girl getting hit around a corona protest last year: https://twitter.com/almogbenzikri/status/1251004227956150273 So this is a police brutality issue, not a Palestine issue. 3) Based on your previous comments- "Hamas is an ally of Israel in Ga…

> 1) You are making an hypothetical based on orders. Which amount to nothing. No, my colleague actually spent time in jail for military crimes. > 2) Searching google for You get what you search for. > you are just out of the loop Or, what is more probable, you are just pushing Hasbara.

Hasbara Hasbara. When you're pushing Palestinian narrative you're progressive. When you're pushing zionist narrative you're an evil Jew Hasbara troll.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#298

Post by helge9210 »

DSingularity wrote: post #203
helge9210 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. But sending an army unit with an order "break the village" which results in shock grenades being dropped into a cradle with the baby inside does qualify them as being terrorized. Note: I'm Israeli and was working with people who got those orders and carried them out during thei…

Thank you for your courage to say that. It is also funny how often people forget why the riots start in the first place. So often it seems to be that the riots are precipitated by egregious abuse by settlers/army/police/Israeli policy. Abuse the people long enough and they will rage.

There was a case couple of years ago near Salfit (Palestinian town near the end of the road 5). First, someone "shot at security vehicle". I remember telling my wife after reading the news: "See what happens next". Of course, the barged into Salfit to "retrieve video recordings from CCTV cameras" shooting some mid-aged man in front of his family. It was already clear, what will happen next. In couple of days 19 y.o. from Salfit approached IDF soldiers on nearby intersection, pulled the knife, stabbed one of the soldiers (19 y.o. musician from Beer Sheva), took his rifle, shot some more soldiers, then grabbed a car, shot some more settlers and escaped. He was later found and executed on the spot by army forces. Two teenagers dead only because prime minister needed some escalation to distract population from the trial.

Did they find the original shooter, who "attacked" security vehicle?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#299

Post by joelbluminator »

VictorPath wrote: post #162
yonixw wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Molotov != Protest 2) > follow the history of the region > terrorize their neighbors Counter example: 2005: Israel unilateral dismantling of the 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza 2007: Gaza Blockade I do not think we see the history of the region in the same way.

> 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza As you mention Hamas, it gives me the opportunity to point out that Israel bankrolled Hamas founder Sheikh Yassin even prior to the founding of Hamas. This was admitted by former military governor of Gaza Yitzhak Segev and other Israeli government and military officials. Israel wanted to undermine secular political Palestinians and empower Islamist political Palestinians. Once successfu…

Well Israel ended up killing Sheikh Yassin so I don't know about that theory - maybe we can agree Israel did conflicting things? Also - are you saying the Palestinians have zero responsibility for Hamas?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#300

Post by skinkestek »

chuckee wrote: post #275
skinkestek wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Intel has no trouble getting engineers to immigrate to the US when it comes to other countries. For some reason Intel keep a significant presence in Israel. I'm not an Israeli and not an Intel employee so I can only guess that they find it beneficial somehow. > There's a lot of room between "unquestioning military support" and "boycott". Yes?

> For some reason Intel keep a significant presence in Israel. A great many US companies have a significant presence in a great many countries, that receive far less in military aid and support. > Yes? Meaning that boycotts against Israel are irrelevant to what the US gains by supporting Israel - I assume that's why you brought them up?

> A great many US companies have a significant presence in a great many countries, that receive far less in military aid and support.

I think you are replying to something you think I said, let me explain below.

> Meaning that boycotts against Israel are irrelevant to what the US gains by supporting Israel - I assume that's why you brought them up?

No, the reason I brought it up is that if what I heard is correct we are very dependent on Israeli technology and products.

My point is that there are some strong rational reasons why Israel is an interesting partner for the US.

Post reply on HN