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Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

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Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#291

Post by DenseComet »

slownews45 wrote: post #261
pram wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumption is incorrect. The SSD on any Mac with a T2/M1 is not like an NVME SSD you'd pick up from the store. The soldered modules themselves are just NAND storage, the T2/M1 is the actual storage controller. They're literally non-functional otherwise.

My impression was they were also going to try and move the T2 off being a separate (potentially replaceable) chip and integrate it with the M1 - did that happen yet or still to happen? But one thing you get on a mac is basically hardware level security for the SSD. Bad news, data recovery will be hard / impossible. Good news, if you sell the thing on pretty unlikely next person will get your data or can remove the "d…

Yep on M1 macs there is no T2, it's already been integrated.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#292

Post by GhettoComputers »

Robotbeat wrote: post #283
GhettoComputers wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it’s not cheaper, the devices aren’t really desirable. Most people don’t want a desktop, they want mobile devices. Lots of people still use old computers and significant upgrades don’t happen in the same generation which is the issue with upgrading Intel CPUs. x86 isn’t what it was, MS made Windows 11 be able to run android apps, consumers don’t care about x86 software anymore. That’s been true since ChromeOS…

It’s funny. I literally just had a long conversation with a fellow researcher still running a laptop from the late 00s, dual booting windows (XP!) and Linux. He is super happy with how reliable and effective it is, plenty of ports without a lot of software cruft. He does a lot of hardware instrumentation interfacing with it. Do developers typically use ChromeOS to do development? I don’t think it can run, say, LabVie…

Yes, they use it for SSH and programming without worrying about taking care of their hardware. Chromebooks aren't a pain, but I doubt your researcher can run those easily either with such old hardware my 1.6ghz atom netbook probably smokes it and still I wouldn't use it for that.

Most people don't need to run those programs, they're niche, and the normal consumer doesn't care.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#293

Post by radley »

lamontcg wrote: post #183
codetrotter wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except for simply running of out drive space. > So if you want to buy something and have it last 5+ years you need to spec it out from the start to have way more drive space than you think you'll ever use. Yup. When I bought my MBP M1 2020, I foolishly went with 256GB of storage. Installed Xcode and that was like 15GB of available storage space gone right then and there. The simulators take another few GB on top of…

Yeah I just ordered a 16" MBP M1 and my math was that I routinely run with about 1TB of storage with a lot of fussiness, I would have ordered 2TB, but since it isn't upgradeable I ordered 4TB. That made someone's numbers at apple like $400 better at least. And it would probably be better for me financially to wait 4-5 years until I really needed 4TB before upgrading (if I ever needed to, which I might not). Same thin…

FWIW, a 4TB SSD with the same speed (7GB/sec) is currently $1200 ($750 more than the 2TB). So Apple's price is decent for the current market.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08Q54GHTC/

I'm certainly not enthused about being stuck with current market capacities, but at least I don't feel gouged on price.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#294

Post by mahesh_rm »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #239
mahesh_rm wrote: post #234

Not really knowledgeable of the specifics: Is it really currently unfeasible for a repair shop to figure out how to re-solder a new SSD, and "flash" the T2 chip?

Apple Silicon macs lack T2 chips, and you cannot "resolder the SSD" on modern Macs, really, you'd need to resolder 8-16 chips on the actual main board, make sure they are the right kind of chips (not something Apple will tell you), and then pray it works --- did it fail because there's a proprietary process of pairing SSD chips to the motherboard, or because one BGA ball on one of the chips didn't sit correctly? Or b…

Great answer, thank you :)

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#295

Post by robertoandred »

thefz wrote: post #221
donkeyd wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> soldered-to-the-motherboard, everything-utterly-encrypted approach is that it's almost impossible to do data recovery Well, that's kind of the point. > You just have to be damn sure that you back it up correctly. Exactly. And that's as easy as plugging in an external hard drive occasionally, or storing critical files in the cloud.

> or storing critical files in the cloud. No. I refuse to let my vacation photos, hard drive images or hell, even my wallpaper collection to leave my house. No. I refuse. My data is my data.

What if your house burns down?

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#296

Post by Robotbeat »

GhettoComputers wrote: post #292
Robotbeat wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny. I literally just had a long conversation with a fellow researcher still running a laptop from the late 00s, dual booting windows (XP!) and Linux. He is super happy with how reliable and effective it is, plenty of ports without a lot of software cruft. He does a lot of hardware instrumentation interfacing with it. Do developers typically use ChromeOS to do development? I don’t think it can run, say, LabVie…

Yes, they use it for SSH and programming without worrying about taking care of their hardware. Chromebooks aren't a pain, but I doubt your researcher can run those easily either with such old hardware my 1.6ghz atom netbook probably smokes it and still I wouldn't use it for that. Most people don't need to run those programs, they're niche, and the normal consumer doesn't care.

Right. Chromebooks are somewhere between a full actual laptop and a tablet or phone. Good for consumers.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#298

Post by justin_oaks »

bastardoperator wrote: post #186
aeturnum wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the old joke about a plumber to charges $100 to fix a hot water heater by hitting it once with a hammer. The home owner, incensed by such a bill for a simple action, demands the plumber justify it. The breakdown is: $1 hammer strike, $99 choosing correct location. Even a decade ago, the rewards for being able to repair computers were pretty substantial. Your computer was likely to have routine failures and yo…

Exactly this. The amount of time, effort, labor, sourcing tools, parts, coupled with education, or making a costly mistake, etc... The warranty or repair person is actually cheaper if you're able to put a price on your time. They also do better work in most cases. I just leave it to the professionals because it saves me money/time. I have no doubts I could do my own repair but from this vantage point it's just not a…

That's fair enough. Everyone has a different cost/benefit analysis based on their own situation.

Some people have more money than time, some have more time than money. And there are a million other factors too.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#299

Post by justin_oaks »

minhazm wrote: post #123
justin_oaks wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a threshold for this? I assume that if your laptop wasn't working and all you had to do was take a single screw out then you'd do it, rather than taking it to a repair shop or buy another. Or if the repair cost was extreme, but it was relatively easy to fix it yourself. Your point of view is valid of course. At the same time I believe many people don't have sufficient money to allow them the luxury of nev…

The problem is knowing what's actually broken in the first place. A friend of mine took their laptop to Geeksquad and they told my friend the power circuit was broken and the motherboard needs replacing. I checked the charger and realized the charger was broken and told them to buy a new one and what do you know it works fine. Most people are generally incapable of figuring out what actually is broken and will go to…

Yes, many people don't know what's broken in the first place.

My minimum threshold for reaching out to a repair technician is 1) the problem must not have a solution that is easily found through an internet search, and 2) the solution must require more time and effort than the time to get it to and from the repair shop.

What saddens me is how few people will do the internet search before giving up.

Yes, I'm tech-savvy so I'm speaking from a position of privilege, but if you're looking for "What's wrong with this thing?" how can you NOT think to search the internet?

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#300

Post by brokenmachine »

CelestialTeapot wrote: post #201
bitwize wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except soldering everything on can give you HUGE performance boosts. Like, laptops come with soldered-on RAM that you can't get in a DIMM configuration because the soldered on stuff is so fast it needs a fast path to the CPU, which DIMM slots can't provide. And now with Apple building all system RAM directly into the chip die, it's just a whole new ballgame. So you can either go modular and have a slow PC, or you can…

Sorry, what? Citation please. The speed lost moving a DIMM from a 3cm path-to-CPU to a removable DIMM slot 6cm away is infinitesimal. You would not notice it.

I've read that nowadays because they effectively have 8-channel or 16-channel RAM, there would just be too many connections to make them removable.

Imagine 8 DIMMs next to each other, and then fitting that into a laptop form factor.

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