Overly analytical guide to escorting • Hacker News Board

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#291

Post by throwaway0a5e » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

rudian wrote: post #125

refurb wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an article about prostitution in Germany (legal) where Eastern European women will offer services for as low as 10 EUR. Race to the bottom?

To charge high prices you have to be attractive. Old, overweight prostitutes can’t charge as much as models. As someone who used services in the past, I don’t understand why anyone would spend any money at all on those… but they do find clients. Maybe it’s because if I lower my standards I can just easily find someone “for free” instead.

Tally up the cost of "free".

People will pay for convenience and certainty.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#292

Post by zozbot234 » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

mst wrote: post #284

zozbot234 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, legal sex work is often exploited as a safe haven for human trafficking. High end escorting is actually likely to be at the lower end of risk, but is ultimately too tiny of a niche for policymakers to care about preserving.

You misspelled 'illegal' - people being unable to go to the police is traffickers' preferred situation. Legalisation, thereby making the same worker protections available as to everybody else, is precisely how to screw them over. The messaging saying otherwise is largely from conservative and/or radfem organisations who're trying to get people to conflate prostitution and trafficking because they want to wipe out all…

> There's a strong parallel to the war on drugs here - criminalisation largely benefits the criminals.

The obvious difference is that one can easily supply drugs in a legal market without engaging in other socially harmful behaviors. A closer analogy is trade in endangered animals. When you ban, e.g. the ivory trade and deprive it of a market, this has a direct effect on how many elephants get poached. Trying to regulate that trade more finely and preserve legal supply only makes things easier for those who engage in illegal activities, who can now misrepresent themselves as being part of a legal market.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#293

Post by CSSer » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #254

"Her website implies that booking her will make you superior to every other man, that you will become enlightened by plowing her platonic ideal of a pussy. I only slightly exaggerate. Why does this give me "think different" vibes?

I’m not sure in exactly what sense you mean, but I’d say it’s because it’s the same target demographic/business segment. No, really! I mean, all advertising is bullshit[0], after all. We want novelty but also familiarity. It validates our intuition and gives us the sense that we’ve noticed something someone else hasn’t even if that’s not true. If you pay close enough attention you start to see common denominators in branding, design, and yes, even copy like you’ve noted here. Our basic job as advertisers is to be aware of the landscape of these things, preserve and deliver the important elements, and successfully convey the client’s message. The standouts among us, whether by luck or virtue, deliver something just radical enough along the way. But I don’t think that bit is as important as some might think, if not in kind then, at least in degree.

Sorry if your question was mostly rhetorical or generally just tongue in cheek. I promise I don’t intend to patronize. I guess you inspired me.

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#294

Post by mdrzn » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

Wow, what an unexpected and amazing article, incredibly well put and detailed.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#295

Post by naasking » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:52 PM UTC

manquer wrote: post #173

c21h30o2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question of whether it's good and wholesome is orthogonal to the question of whether society should punish those who do it. Scenario A: Resourceful, successful, happy. Should she be forced to accept dangerous working conditions and live under the constant threat of eviction, imprisonment, harassment and stigma? Why? What's the argument in favor of making her life difficult? Scenario B: Physical or mental disabili…

The point is her experience is niche and unique, it is not indicative of how the industry at large actually operates so making any judgements would not be meaningful as OP was doing.

> so making any judgements would not be meaningful as OP was doing

The OP's judgment was that he saw no reason why this escort's business should be illegal. That's not a judgment on whether other forms of prostitution should be legal.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#296

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

eevilspock wrote: post #165

Yoric wrote: post #156

Very interesting article. Do I understand correctly that sex work is still illegal in the US? If so, what's the rationale? Why can't consenting adults do what they want with their body?

If a woman is poor, struggling to survive or trying to give a child a decent life in a society and economic system that is very sink or swim, do you consider it "consent" if she agrees to have sex with you so she can pay the rent, or have a decent meal, or buy the drugs she got hooked on dealing with depression and alienation, sold to her by a predatory drug dealer?

[deleted]

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#297

Post by bjourne » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

jonathanstrange wrote: post #278

bjourne wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you don't know how the justice system operates if you think every charge of rape leads to a conviction. In some jurisdictions prostitution is legal, such as Germany, but, afaik, that has not led to a higher number of johns being sentenced. The idea that legalization would somehow make prostitution seem to me to not be grounded in reality. More it seems like make believe for the customers: "It's not us clients…

I don't think every rape charge leads to conviction, though. Moreover, saying that clients make prostitution unsafe is like saying that drivers make the roads unsafe. What's the point of that? I didn't present an argument for the legalization of prostitution. In my opinion, there is no need for an argument since it's completely obvious to any normal human being that it is not a crime. Why on earth would selling sex f…

You are using phrases such as "completely obvious", "common-sense", and "not controversial" where they aren't warranted. What is obvious to you may not be obvious to others.

In Europe, laws around prostitution varies a lot. In some countries buying and selling sex is legal, in some only buying sex is illegal, and in others prostitution is completely forbidden. There appears to be no correlation between prostitutes' working conditions and the legality of prostitution. In Germany prostitution is legal, yet a massive number of women are trafficked from Eastern European countries to Germany, ostensibly because they are willing to sell sex cheaper than German women.

Yes, police and social workers can make outdoor areas safer whether or not prostitution is legalized. That's a false dichotomy.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#298

Post by realce » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

mikevm wrote: post #192

eevilspock wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a woman is poor, struggling to survive or trying to give a child a decent life in a society and economic system that is very sink or swim, do you consider it "consent" if she agrees to have sex with you so she can pay the rent, or have a decent meal, or buy the drugs she got hooked on dealing with depression and alienation, sold to her by a predatory drug dealer?

At least a woman can take the easy way out and become a prostitute. A man has no such "luxury". Society does not pity weak men the way it pities weak women.

It's the apex of capitalist dehumanization to suggest that having few marketable services makes a person "weak" or that being having sex with people you don't love for money to eat food is a "luxury."

Re-evaluate how you see people.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#299

Post by robrtsql » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

newsclues wrote: post #251

c21h30o2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question of whether it's good and wholesome is orthogonal to the question of whether society should punish those who do it. Scenario A: Resourceful, successful, happy. Should she be forced to accept dangerous working conditions and live under the constant threat of eviction, imprisonment, harassment and stigma? Why? What's the argument in favor of making her life difficult? Scenario B: Physical or mental disabili…

Scenario B workers under legalization will lose their jobs/income. Marginalized workers in the cannabis industry got pushed out when Canada legalized cannabis.

This is why most sex workers are specifically in favor of decriminalization and not 'legalization'.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#300

Post by tcskeptic » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #229

hzay wrote: post #152

I felt very sorry when she said it's difficult to take deposits because payment processors are cruel, that she can't report a horrible client to police, that the govt refuses to acknowledge the work but takes the taxes, and all the precautions escorts have to take against cops. This work should be legal.

She describes in the article how she was essentially raped. Can you explain how legalized prostitution would have helped her in that situation? Because it seems to me that there is no way the guy would have been convicted of rape. Furthermore, future johns would avoid her if they knew that she had filed charges against a previous customer. Having sex with men for money is inherently dangerous and I don't think legali…

Legalization would make it much easier for escorts to coordinate on john screening. See for example the research done by Cunningham/Deangelo/Tripp on the effect of Craigslist shutting down their Erotic Services section. And that paper wasn't even on legalization, just a small piece of normalization that allowed coordination. There is also a paper by Cunningham on the accidental legalization of indoor prostitution in Rhode Island and its effect on crime and violence. Fascinating stuff.