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Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

reuters.com

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Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#291

Post by orhmeh09 »

yholio wrote: post #282
TeMPOraL wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, this makes sense in a hypothetical world of perfect theoretical models (you may recognize this world as being the one inhabited by frictionless, perfectly spherical cows). In this world, scalpers cause the market to price in "stickiness" - the more critical an item is to the buyer, the more they'll be willing to pay - so the supply ultimately gets allocated to the most desperate of buyers, for the p…

Scalpers perform a social service by rationing demand and ensuring availability. They don't eat the whole consumer surplus, rather, they must compete amongst themselves and the price you pay is the amount that makes client N+1 walk away if total supply is N. Some of the buyers will find that close to their margin, but others, for which the product is essential in very valuable (thus socially useful) goods or services…

When did people start dousing their driveways in antiseptic?

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#292

Post by the__alchemist »

chrisseaton wrote: post #254
the__alchemist wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scalpers hurt anyone launching a hardware product who doesn't have the order quantity to buy direct-from-manufacturer.

I don't get how it hurts anyone to have to pay market rate. If your product doesn't work at market prices, then that's your problem - not scalpers.

I think you'll find most electronics products available to be unprofitable if they had to use these scalpers as suppliers.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#293

Post by runesoerensen »

yholio wrote: post #289
nicoburns wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments can do this without the inefficiency of the scalpers profits in cases where the need is great.

Also known as a command economy, a staple stalinist recipe.

> Also known as a command economy, a staple stalinist recipe

No. That’s an extreme, just like your idea of what you call a “social service” performed by scalpers.

There’s a middle ground, and it’s certainly possible to regulate a market to mitigate the most pathological consequences of capitalism without Stalinism. In fact, that happens all the time.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#294

Post by hef19898 »

teeray wrote: post #158
hristov wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all this "simple" car may end up being more expensive. Doing a lot of the things the old mechanical way requires a lot of labor and labor is expensive nowadays. Having to use turning wires and vacuum tubes for instrument clusters, and a bunch of pull wires for controls... Not only would that be expensive it would require skills and equipment long lost today. Oh and the wind shield wipers -- it is possible to…

> cars used to break down much more often and require much more skilled maintenance. Yeah, but “skilled maintenance “ was an easy skill. There could only be a handful of things wrong if it didn’t start: e.g. no spark, no fuel. In the case of no spark, you check the plug, see if it’s dirty, change it if so; check the distributor, maybe the points are bad; check the coil or condenser… yeah there were things to check, b…

And how often does that happen with modern day cars compared to old ones? I would argue that older cars, pre electronic wizardry, are easier to repair (assuming spare parts are available) but break down more often. Older cars are also in need of more maintenance.

Modern cars need an inspection every 30k km and hardly ever break down. When they do, they are usually toast so (at least financially). Older cars are financially toast as well, if you cannot do the work yourself so.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#295

Post by nicoburns »

medvezhenok wrote: post #244
TeMPOraL wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: they make it possible for people/entities who can afford to waste most money to get them instead of those first/lucky. But how is that a better outcome? And why should this involve people spending more money, and all the delta going to the person who was first in line or in lucky position to secure a loan and buy off all the supply?

Scalpers allow people who are not price sensitive or have inelastic demand priority over people who are lucky / first. The ethics depends on the exact case study provided. If it's a rich person buying an xbox (not price sensitive) - that's one thing, and most people would not support it. If it's someone needing an IC for a heart monitor to stay alive (inelastic demand), most would say that providing them an IC over s…

Scalpers only do (2) for those who can afford it. If scalpers were willing to hand out goods on the merit of the application rather than profit then I’d have much more sympathy. But then they wouldn’t really be scalpers anymore.

I’m willing to bet that scalpers starve critical applications of goods far more than they provide them. Providers of critical services are usually poorly funded.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#296

Post by babypuncher »

I'm curious to see a more up to date analysis of the chip shortage. My understanding is that when it started last year, the problem was caused by unprecedented demand for silicon fueled by people being stuck at home. Factories were pumping out chips at maximum capacity and it still wasn't enough to meet demand.

As people return to vacationing and social activities as the vaccine became available, I expected demand to slowly come back down to meet supply, but the problem seems to only be getting worse.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#297

Post by practice9 »

mnholt wrote: post #262
speedgoose wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many manufacturers had no shame to charge for shitty features in alpha state like the "ping pong" line assist.

Well they aren't going to "ping pong" themselves into a parked emergency vehicle.

Right, because it will just turn off itself randomly and run full speed into vehicle ahead.

Even Tesla's basic autopilot is far ahead of competitors and it's already included in base price.

Many companies will rip you off for far more basic cruise control

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#298

Post by nicoburns »

jdasdf wrote: post #192
kbaker wrote: post #114

One important part of the chip shortage is the massive amount of price gouging going on. Every IC is being bought up by new 3rd party distributors to scalp to desperate electronics manufacturers. Take a look at this chip we are just now crossing as an example, click on 'Non-authorized stocking distributors': https://octopart.com/tps2052bdgnr-texas+instruments-699312?r... Win Source has a bunch, but you will pay 6x th…

> One important part of the chip shortage is the massive amount of price gouging going on. There is no such thing as "price gouging". It just so happens that at this moment the price of things is higher than it usually is due to increased demand and reduced supply.

Increased demand doesn’t increase prices on its own. The seller also has to Choose to sell at the higher price.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#299

Post by dahart »

awakeasleep wrote: post #253
dahart wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually is the idea with truly “free market” thinking, no? The money wasted in a crisis, and the companies killed who would’ve otherwise limped through, is all assumed to be less waste and a better outcome than the alternative we get if we prevent scalpers and/or cap the prices. In this theoretical world, we waste more money when supply runs out too fast, and we get companies that are not as good at competing b…

Actually the original ‘free’ in free markets meant free from economic rents

Sure, but that’s not what it means anymore, right? Today’s “free” means no regulation.

Re: Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant until 2022

#300

Post by Retric »

skybrian wrote: post #225
Retric wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can only do that by holding onto to supply which makes shortages worse. The same thing happens with ticket scalping at concerts, the difference is it’s more obvious that a sold out concert has empty seats vs supply sitting in a warehouse on the off chance it can be sold at 100x prices.

Empty seats mean someone screwed up but how can you tell that a group of empty seats is unused due to a scalper, versus some group of people who couldn’t make it? When speculators don’t screw up, one fewer part being sold now means one more part that can be bought later. Delaying sales of some parts makes the shortage worse earlier and better later. Keeping inventory is a service to people who didn’t plan ahead. Some…

Your right concerts make it hard to tell why seats are empty however unsold inventory is part of the basic business model of reserving a section of supply at higher prices not simply a mistake.

Airline seats are a better comparison. Airlines keep raising prices as inventory gets sold and flights near. However, that approach means they generally fly with significant unused excess capacity. The reverse approach where prices got cheaper as the flight neared would result in increased occupancy though significantly less total revenue.

The discrepancy shows up because buyers may be willing to pay radically different prices. A business traveler may be willing to book a last minute seat at 3x the price a holiday traveler who’s booking 6 months in advance. Hypothetically, making a 50/50 bet on a 3x sale is clearly a good idea but it means 50% of the time that seat sits unused.

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