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Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

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Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#291

Post by southerntofu »

908B64B197 wrote: post #238
whiterock wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don‘t think the cost is so high here, we have covert ticket inspectors, none of those fancy electric gates.

Fully unionized with a (publicly funded) pension? Ass soon as you see a human it costs a fortune.

"a fortune" is very relative. Railway workers are not exactly known to earn a fortune. From what i could see in France (quick search), they earn between 1500 (close to minimum wage) and 2500€ per month, before taxes.

Also around here i've never heard railway unions ask for better compensation, because as you have pointed out they already have a good pension and some transport-related privileges [0]. However, they have been relentlessly asking for better working conditions in order to provide a better service, and that the government stop to try and privatize railways.

Of course the managers, directors and private contractors earn a lot more and that's how our corrupt overlords get away with siphoning much public money into private pockets. But these people, we could well do without, and unions would certainly support a move like that.

[0] Personally, i would strongly approve better compensation for those people we now call "essential workers". It appears in a capitalist system, those who work the most and provide the most services (railway/construction/food/cleaning/health workers) are those paid the less and with the most grueling working conditions. That's a shame.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#292

Post by raxxorrax »

ratww wrote: post #32
rob74 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so the Austrian version costs less than a third of that for a considerably larger country. And the public transportation system is pretty good in Austria too...

In Germany it's also around 4k. EUR 4,027 for the BahnCard 100. We're much bigger than Switzerland, though. https://www.bahn.com/en/offers/bahncard/bahncard_100-conditi... EDIT: I can't find info on whether the German one covers city transportation... maybe it doesn't! - EDIT2: It does according to reply!

I maintain my car for for Given, I have a "car dude" that repairs and sells me used cars in good condition (I don't drive much at all), but even if you would spend a bit more, it isn't as competitive as it needs to be.

But other than that, cars are almost essential today. Have family you need to take care of? Good luck doing that with public transport. Doable perhaps if you quit your job...

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#293

Post by bluGill »

southerntofu wrote: post #288
bluGill wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because then politicians will rob the budget for whatever their pet project is. Fares should at least cover all operating costs (including maintenance), so that politicians can't slowly kill the system via neglect (they will kill it by others means, but at least budget won't be one)

How is that so? Politicians have a way to destroy/privatize public service whether it's self-funded or not, just like they destroy/ban private associations doing too much of a job for social justice (such as armed bands expropriating the bourgeoisie to feed popular districts, which was common throughout the 60-80s). Famously, french social security (healthcare), unemployment and pensions are more or less self-funded…

You are correct, but if the service is self funded via operational fees it is better able to stand for longer - which gives a chance that whoever is harming them will be voted out and someone else will do better. Though we have ample experience in the US of long term neglect from both parties, the more you are self funded the harder it is to do that. If you are not self funded as soon as someone cuts your budget you have to cut service, but if you are self funded you can ride out those winds better. (though COVID like things will harm you no matter what)

There is no great answer here, but I still believe that self funding of operating costs is the best answer.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#294

Post by denimnerd42 »

malermeister wrote: post #274
denimnerd42 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no. it’s to enforce the rules on the train. there are some homeless that will refuse government provided housing no matter what.

That's just not true. The problem is that government housing is so terrible that sleeping on the street is preferable to some. Public housing in Austria is high quality, cheap and plentiful, with two-thirds of Viennese residents living in it. Coincidentally, homelessness is a non-issue in Austria compared to the US (based on my experience living in the Bay for 10 and in Austria for 20 years). See this video for what…

Looks like one development you need to be super connected to get into…

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#295

Post by rory »

southerntofu wrote: post #287
rory wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how it is in Austria, but here in the US, people on the more "precarious" end of the spectrum (non-management retail and hospitality workers) have a quit rate of (very roughly) ~50% per year. So generally they do seem to be aware that they can choose a different place to work. Do you live somewhere very rural?

Yes i reside in a less populous area (south France) where you can be happy to find a job at all, if that's what you're looking for in life. But from my understanding of bigger agglomerations: there's a high turnover rate in precarious jobs, but just because you can afford to find another precarious job elsewhere doesn't mean you get the privilege to choose where precisely. I hear in suburbs of capitals like Berlin or…

Hm yes, my perspective is probably quite non-representative. Thank you for the insight!

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#296

Post by southerntofu »

rory wrote: post #295
southerntofu wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes i reside in a less populous area (south France) where you can be happy to find a job at all, if that's what you're looking for in life. But from my understanding of bigger agglomerations: there's a high turnover rate in precarious jobs, but just because you can afford to find another precarious job elsewhere doesn't mean you get the privilege to choose where precisely. I hear in suburbs of capitals like Berlin or…

Hm yes, my perspective is probably quite non-representative. Thank you for the insight!

Thank you for asking, that was a very pertinent question!

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#297

Post by sokoloff »

southerntofu wrote: post #291
908B64B197 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully unionized with a (publicly funded) pension? Ass soon as you see a human it costs a fortune.

"a fortune" is very relative. Railway workers are not exactly known to earn a fortune. From what i could see in France (quick search), they earn between 1500 (close to minimum wage) and 2500€ per month, before taxes. Also around here i've never heard railway unions ask for better compensation, because as you have pointed out they already have a good pension and some transport-related privileges [0]. However, they hav…

Railway ticket selling and checking/enforcement are only essential jobs if rail isn't free.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#298

Post by malermeister »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #294
malermeister wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just not true. The problem is that government housing is so terrible that sleeping on the street is preferable to some. Public housing in Austria is high quality, cheap and plentiful, with two-thirds of Viennese residents living in it. Coincidentally, homelessness is a non-issue in Austria compared to the US (based on my experience living in the Bay for 10 and in Austria for 20 years). See this video for what…

Looks like one development you need to be super connected to get into…

Again, 2/3rds of Vienna lives in things like those. The City of Vienna is the largest landlord in all of Europe.

Better things are possible if we stop standing in the way with selfish cynicism.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#299

Post by ratww »

raxxorrax wrote: post #292
ratww wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany it's also around 4k. EUR 4,027 for the BahnCard 100. We're much bigger than Switzerland, though. https://www.bahn.com/en/offers/bahncard/bahncard_100-conditi... EDIT: I can't find info on whether the German one covers city transportation... maybe it doesn't! - EDIT2: It does according to reply!

I maintain my car for for Given, I have a "car dude" that repairs and sells me used cars in good condition (I don't drive much at all), but even if you would spend a bit more, it isn't as competitive as it needs to be. But other than that, cars are almost essential today. Have family you need to take care of? Good luck doing that with public transport. Doable perhaps if you quit your job...

> I don't drive much at all

Then why are you comparing your €1000 expense to this €4000 ticket? This ticket is for people who travel multiple times a week by train.

There are still normal tickets available in Germany, you don't have to pay 4000 a year for the privilege of taking a train once in a while.

Even city tickets are for people who travel every day.

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