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Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

symboliclogic.io

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Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#291

Post by h3mb3 »

Symbiote wrote: post #276
h3mb3 wrote: post #256

My biggest problem is to find keyboards that would have all 3 modifiers on BOTH sides. I use a Mac for work which means in most (split/ergo/tenkeyless) keyboards (depending on the settings applicable) either Ctrl or Alt/Opt is missing from the right side, because e.g. an Fn key or a squeezed-in left arrow is taking their place. I need all 3 modifiers constantly (Ctrl+C in Terminal, enter special characters, use app s…

Any mechanical keyboard supporting QMK is fully reprogrammable, so you can either choose one with sufficient keys, or enable one of various options to double-up particular keys. I have an ErgoDash, which has several thumb keys on each side — the size of your hands would determine how many are practical for frequent use. My squeezed-in left arrow key serves as Alt when I hold it down, and Enter is Ctrl if I hold that…

Among the QMK keyboards, it's still very tricky to find a tenkeyless/ergo keyboard with mostly a normal layout (with enough keys between the spacebar and the arrow keys to host all 3 Mac modifier keys).

More importantly, I also really haven't yet found a "mechanical" keyswitch (== with a Cherry MX mount) that wouldn't be worse for my RSI than traditional rubber domes (lately I've especially liked the low travel ones, currently Logitech Ergo K860). Sure, it may also be more about the design (or lack of design) in many of these "mechanical" keyboards I've tried that is bad for my specific kind of RSI – it's hard to pin down.

Unfortunately, if you want rubber domes, the options are really scarse. I wish the religious fandom around Cherry MX style switches would decrease in the upcoming years, to give more room for new kinds of keyboard innovations.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#292

Post by thraxil »

asciimov wrote: post #289
thraxil wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use the MX Ergo on Linux. Never had to install any drivers. Works perfectly.

My issue is that I use a scaled 4k monitor, and in order to get the mouse to move at a reasonable speed I had to put some xinput commands into my autostart script. It feels hacky, and just wish it had proper support.

I use two 4K monitors. Haven't really had an issue with movement speed. I can pretty easily send the pointer from one side all the way too the other with one flick of my thumb. I use sway/wayland though, so maybe it's different from X11 on that. I also mostly use the keyboard for desktop navigation, coding, etc. The mouse is almost entirely for clicking on things within a browser window and the occasional Steam game.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#293

Post by Symbiote »

h3mb3 wrote: post #291
Symbiote wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any mechanical keyboard supporting QMK is fully reprogrammable, so you can either choose one with sufficient keys, or enable one of various options to double-up particular keys. I have an ErgoDash, which has several thumb keys on each side — the size of your hands would determine how many are practical for frequent use. My squeezed-in left arrow key serves as Alt when I hold it down, and Enter is Ctrl if I hold that…

Among the QMK keyboards, it's still very tricky to find a tenkeyless/ergo keyboard with mostly a normal layout (with enough keys between the spacebar and the arrow keys to host all 3 Mac modifier keys). More importantly, I also really haven't yet found a "mechanical" keyswitch (== with a Cherry MX mount) that wouldn't be worse for my RSI than traditional rubber domes (lately I've especially liked the low travel ones,…

Ah, sorry, I was thinking far too much of the mechanical keyboard nerds when you wrote "ergo". My ErgoDash is a few steps weirder than the Logitech Ergo K860. I find those low-travel keyboards extremely uncomfortable for typing; being unable to replace a much older full-travel ergonomic Logitech keyboard is what drove me to a mechanical alternative. I did find it uncomfortable at first, until I realized I did not need to press the keys anywhere near as hard as I was used to.

There are some low-profile MX mount mechanical switches [1], but I have no experience. I did make the gallery [2], but it only has mechanical keyboards – I think other sites cover rubber-dome keyboards adequately.

[1] https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Low_Profile

[2] https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#294

Post by 0xmarcin »

makeitrain wrote: post #271
JeremyNT wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kinesis has also their freestyle-line, which are physically splitted keyboard. But traditionally, the name refers to the split of the key-segments, not the whole keyboard. Until a decade ago, there barely where any real split keyboards, and split segments was the mainstream. Indeed, I saw the title of this post and I wondered if the poster was looking for a setup similar to the Freestyle... and it turns out they we…

I have a kinesis freestyle pro, and it's great. About 18" of separation. I only wish it had a steeper tilt angle. I always thought full size keyboards should split the alpha keys and put the numpad in the middle. That would drastically improve ergonomics.

I am owner of Kinesis Freestyle Pro too. I bought the keyboard with a tilt kit and pads. I am using it with macbook and I must admit that mac layout could be better (option and command keys are too small). Besides that the keyboard itself takes a lot of space on my desk, it is really huge compared to other keyboards that I had (including The Code keyboard).

Split design is definitely a win, but I needed some time to get used to it. After about a month keyboard started to feel natural. To be honest I would like to see a medical research on using various keyboard types. Personally I don't feel much difference compared to typing on macbook. Most problems that I had with my wrists where always connected to using mouse.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#295

Post by Matumio »

sbahr001 wrote: post #49
roganartu wrote: post #11

> I tried a few of those Kinesis split keyboards. Too squishy for me. Not far enough apart. The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey for calls and screenshares. Muscle memory made it difficult to switch. This is a really cool hack, and I’m happy that the author found a solution for their pain that works for them, but this bit confused me. Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split…

I had the kinesis advantage 3 for a little over a week. I have to say by far the most comfortable keyboard I have every used. I returned it because I didn't have the spare time to "adjust" to the layout. Its funny its been months and I still miss the feeling lol.

A week? Well, how much time do you expect to spend typing over the next 10 years...?

It took about a month or two to adapt IIRC. I would suggest to remap and reconfigure some keys/layout after observing your actual usage. Also change a few uncomfortable application key combos and relearn, especially if you're not using a US layout.

Reprogramming (swapping) keys is easy, but I admit it was a big hassle to also keep a custom layout synced/working between Windows and Linux over the years. But it's great once it's done.

By now I'm owning three kinesis advantage, one at the office, one at home, and one to make sure I never have to type on a flat keyboard ever again if anything breaks. I get RSI just from looking at those.

I also tried a fully split (freestyle2) keyboard, but it didn't work for me. I think it was the lack of the bowl shape.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#296

Post by wibblewobble123 »

CptFribble wrote: post #248

I'd like to make an accessory recommendation: get one of those grip-strength things and use it all the time. This did two things for me: 1. Extra strength in hands and forearms makes you more resistant to injury of all kinds there 2. More importantly I think, having extra muscles in your hands and forearms gives you more proprioception feedback to help know when you're putting your hands and wrists in an uncomfortabl…

Be careful with these grip strength thingies. If your finger tendons are overworked, using those will exacerbate the problem. I tell from experience. It’s brutal. Tendons aren’t muscles, they don’t fatigue and recover in the same way as muscles, like from doing forearm curls.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#297

Post by DynamicStatic »

wibblewobble123 wrote: post #296
CptFribble wrote: post #248

I'd like to make an accessory recommendation: get one of those grip-strength things and use it all the time. This did two things for me: 1. Extra strength in hands and forearms makes you more resistant to injury of all kinds there 2. More importantly I think, having extra muscles in your hands and forearms gives you more proprioception feedback to help know when you're putting your hands and wrists in an uncomfortabl…

Be careful with these grip strength thingies. If your finger tendons are overworked, using those will exacerbate the problem. I tell from experience. It’s brutal. Tendons aren’t muscles, they don’t fatigue and recover in the same way as muscles, like from doing forearm curls.

I had a lot of pain, started stretching my fingers and it was gone in a week. Can recommend.
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