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The Clickbaitification of Netflix

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Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#291

Post by xmprt »

ggggtez wrote: post #250
alistairSH wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. A few years ago, I subscribed to Netflix. That was it (no cable, no other streaming). The amount of good content was reasonable. Now, I have to cycle through Netflix, Hulu, HBO, Apple, and Amazon. I unsubscribed to most of them most of the time, and resubscribe as a show or movie comes to my attention (Dune will get me resubscribed to HBO for a month or two, etc). I still spend less on streaming than I did on c…

Maybe you should treat books like TV then: give it a half hour, and if you're not hooked, close it and find another. I know many people say books take longer to enjoy, but a bad TV series can take ~12 hours per season. Most people can probably finish a novel in 12 hours.

Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way but I feel like books are more comparable to movies. A bad movie lasts under 2 hours and I can usually skip around without losing much context because pictures and video convey a lot more information than text. I can infer things that I miss based on background elements whereas in a book if the characters go to a different location, it's hard to know that unless I read the part where they go to said location.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#292

Post by webmaven »

mrVentures wrote: post #242
mojuba wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think peoples tastes have shifted to quality in more areas, I'm genuinely curious if there's any data or research to support this. Because in my view the tastes remain more or less the same, just the information noise around us is now bigger.

More people believe the earth is flat now than did 100 years ago. That's an impact.

> More people believe the earth is flat now than did 100 years ago. That's an impact.

There are more blacksmiths now too. Don't underestimate the effects of population growth.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#293

Post by webmaven »

muffinman26 wrote: post #267
kqr wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How might a streaming service be designed to increase user happiness and wellbeing? The rational part of my brain would like - Suggestions for difficult content (this tends to be things you either love or hate, which is why Netflix does not suggest it, preferring safe bets); - Making it impossible to binge on one, or a small set, of things, instead forcing diversification; - Encourage spending short amounts of time…

The last two suggestions are interesting to me because it's exactly the opposite of what I think I need for my long-term well-being. Over the past few years it feels like watching too many clips and reading too many short articles has caused my attention span to drastically decrease, to the point where I rarely have the patience for a normal length movie. Breaking movies into episodes or forcing me to watch more diff…

> I think a better way to limit mindless engagement would be the ability to pre-set and lock in which content I'm going to watch for the day. So maybe I lock in that I want to watch a movie or 3 episodes of show X, and then Netflix shuts down for the day afterwards. Maybe it could even warn that episode 3 is the first part of a two-parter and suggest I stick to two episodes for the day.

This is the right approach (giving the user tools that increase their agency) and the equivalent of the Digital Wellbeing features in Android.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#294

Post by webmaven »

davemp wrote: post #163
pizza234 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the opposite opinion. They're executing their vision perfectly. Netflix is very aggressively pursuing the bottom line, and they're not doing it differently from a drug dealer. It's not random that the term "Netflix binge" exists. Netflix interface is designed to shove content at the users' face at all costs, and in a very disrespectful way. Here there are some disgusting dark patterns: - it took them a long ti…

They also cycle through 'box art' on Netflix originals so you can't scroll past them if you recognize art from a title you're not interest in.

> They also cycle through 'box art' on Netflix originals so you can't scroll past them if you recognize art from a title you're not interest in.

I've noticed that Amazon Prime Video is doing the same thing with their Amazon Originals.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#295

Post by bertil »

1123581321 wrote: post #201
bertil wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this response is dismissive: it’s a technical explanation of what is happening. Understanding it helps us find a solution. Netflix (of Facebook) rates content along embeddings, and highlights content along embeddings that users engage with. If a given user engages with clips featuring people in bikini, that system won’t pass the judgement (one that the author is passing, a judgement you dearly regret, ‘…

Nice response. Unfortunately, the original response is dismissive even though it’s about a technical topic, but it wouldn’t be if discussing just about any other content category and you’re right that those kinds of mechanisms are worthy of analysis. I haven’t worked at FB but don’t metadata-adding contractors training ML models serve the function of invisible, more complete likes? My understanding is all these large…

The issue rarely is whether the content can be interpreted properly, or at least hadn’t in the last few years. There are contractors flagging edge-cases, issues around nuances like photo-realistic first-person shooter video game footage (common) vs. footages from actual fire-fights (banned since the Christchurch attack) so it _is_ and interesting technical question but that’s not what is challenging to improve the experience.

Some people find others talking about their success inspiring, others find the bargain obnoxious, others still feel demoralised by it. Those can be the same viewer at different time. Without a better way to let people express their reaction than Likes, Comments and dwell time, you won’t be able to tell what’s the long-term impact. “Blocking Facebook” is the only external solution, and getting no-signal isn’t going to help Facebook improve. Every idea under the sun was suggested internally, but whether they are given a chance is a delicate question.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#296

Post by pizza234 »

kmmlng wrote: post #64
pizza234 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the opposite opinion. They're executing their vision perfectly. Netflix is very aggressively pursuing the bottom line, and they're not doing it differently from a drug dealer. It's not random that the term "Netflix binge" exists. Netflix interface is designed to shove content at the users' face at all costs, and in a very disrespectful way. Here there are some disgusting dark patterns: - it took them a long ti…

So they are taking steps which are ostensibly geared towards this drug dealer vision. But is it working? I can only look at myself and the people around me. There was a time when we would go on Netflix binges and there probably was something drug-like about it. But now? I go on Netflix, I scroll around for a bit, can't find anything I would like to watch, and I close Netflix again. The only reason I'm still paying fo…

It depends on the viewer's attitude. I think there is a spectrum between the extremes "I want to watch something interesting" and "I want to watch something".

Considering that the commonly mentioned stats on TV watching show that a lot of people is watching (or maybe more accurately, keeping on) TV for hours every day, the latter extreme should be common.

In this sense, bombarding the audience with junk, or at least, pushing very hard, is a strategy that, I think, is productive, in the same sense as drug dealing strategies are.

I'm towards the former extreme, however, I'm certainly not immune from their strategy. I still feel some need to "chill" and therefore I somewhat tolerate their strategy (although, I also use it for learning languages, so there's another motivation). The irritation is building up, though.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#297

Post by tomnipotent »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #228
tomnipotent wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we even begin to define wellbeing? How do you measure it, and do so at scale with statistical confidence? How do you finance it? How do you moderate and govern it? Who does it benefit besides the industries that spring up to support it? I don't think "wellbeing" is concrete enough an idea like business metrics to meaningful act upon in private organizations. Sort of a "road to hell paved in good intentions" co…

Here's how the OECD does it at a country-level. A couple decades ago this probably seemed too hard. Then, it turns out it's not that hard to operationalize wellbeing and measure it at scale with statistical confidence. It isn't perfect — the science advances — and that's good. https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/ Companies already invest heavily in the assessment and optimization of employee wellbeing. This is a majo…

After reading up on it, there's nothing about this that builds confidence that it's anything more an indicator of wellbeing than the "MyPlate" USDA guidelines are for dietary requirements.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#298

Post by boublepop »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #3

Would Netflix have to do this if it actually had content people wanted to watch? It's just sad watching it double down on this pulp because every other copyright holder took their ball and went home.

Come on, this is beyond hyperbole and absolutely absurd.

Yes, Netflix has content people want to watch.

That’s not a fact up for debate, it’s is absolute certainty and proven beyond all reasonable doubt. To suggest otherwise is on par with arguing that the moon doesn’t exist.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#299

Post by omegalulw »

yarcob wrote: post #102

This is why I quit my Netflix subscription. The algorithm seems to have picked up the fact that I like watching SciFi and Zombie movies, so my Netflix homepage was this dark place filled with Sci Fi and Zombie movies. One problem with this is that Netflix only has a handful of good SciFi and Zombie movies, and I've seen them all. So the homepage was filled with movies I've seen already, or the dime-a-dozen copycat mo…

When I found myself spending 15+ minutes looking for content and not finding anything, I just cancelled.

I just don't see the value in Netflix anymore. Everyone has wisened up to the fact that creating your own streaming service is extremely important - especially when you consider ROI.

So what differentiates streaming services is the catalog. Netflix now have to compete on the quality of their originals. They have some good shows once in a while but the their lead is not groundbreaking at all anymore.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#300

Post by Noos »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #74
tomnipotent wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The data/engineering/product loops at tech companies favor boosting short-term metrics I think this hits the nail on the head. Leadership is hard, and executives can be many layers removed from the frontline. It seems that A/B tests and family have proven a really effective vehicle to communicate across leadership levels what has happened, why it happened, and the impact it had on the business. I'm definitely guilt…

How might a streaming service be designed to increase user happiness and wellbeing? From a positive design perspective, could certain streaming features give users a greater sense of purpose or goal accomplishment (e.g., mastering a genre) or help users meaningfully connect to others (e.g., seeing what friends have recommended lately)? While measuring the effects of a feature on wellbeing outcomes is substantially ha…

The only thing worse than engineers trying to use algorithims to make us eat junk food is them using them to try and make us healthy. This is because at least the junk food part no one will be able to seriously defend is morally right. The best way to tyranize others is to claim to be working for their own good.

Netflix is fine.

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