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Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

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Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#291

Post by tomlin »

econgeeker wrote: post #281
tomlin wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all of this crossed their minds. Honestly, I don't think Airbnb wants to leave this person hanging. If they pay for this incident, they are possibly opening the door for the kinds of schemes people pull on insurance. You know, the whole "rob my place and I'll collect the insurance" schemes. If Airbnb pays for this incident, they effectively become an insurance company. Maybe what they should do is offer some…

AirBnB paying for one incident does not create any obligation on them to pay for other incidents. That's nonsense. Apple replaced a friends phone that they abused and then made up a story about. Apple did this because Apple wanted to take care of their customer. Doesn't mean Apple is obligated to replace every phone, even when it is abused. Apple's only obligated to the terms of the warranty it promises. Apple promis…

I'm not saying it's right or fair. I also think it's nonsense. You're thinking on the side of a smart entrepreneur, not a criminal.

All a crook is interested in is hearing or seeing the headline: "Airbnb pays for loss and damages to rattled user", or other more clever narrative. If you're a criminal, details aside, you've got all you need to scheme up an assalt.

Criminals don't work on high probability, if they did, there wouldn't be so many obvious ones. Just because they aren't likely to get the reward they desire doesn't mean they won't try.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#292

Post by chrisgoodrich »

This is such a tragic situation. I am shocked by the lack of response by Airbnb. The very least they can do is provide her assistance and connecting her with the right resources to move forward.

When I was in college, a classmate in a philosophy class found out I was a business major and turned to me and said "you guys are just so heartless." I resented the statement but brushed it off as a gross generalization. Situations like these just prove my classmates point to be more real than I was willing to admit at the time. Putting profit above the safety and well being of your customers/users is a terrible business practice that will certainly lead to the death of your business. This isn't even about PR, this is fundamental to the future of the Airbnb platform and they aren't even listening.

The hotel lobby has a huge opportunity here that I don't think they realize yet. With this being on the front page of the Financial Times today, the hotel lobby should be swooping in anytime to pick up the pieces of Airbnb's failure to act. If I were the manager of any hotel in the SF area, I'd be offering her a free stay until things got sorted out. Airbnb is going to be left in the wake wondering what the hell happened.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#293

Post by hugh3 »

jonhohle wrote: post #266
a3camero wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it is a solved problem or AirBNB would be using it. Imagine what the negotiations would be like. They need insurance for: -An open-ended number of people worldwide (constantly changing) -Any sort of property from shitty apartments all the way to fancy houses (no estimate of value possible, requires appraisers) -Damage/theft caused by people with unverified identities (all they have is CC, stolen?) -Any and al…

Imagine negotiating insurance for a mobile business where people are flung around 30+ feet in the air with no safety harness, others stick their heads in the mouths of lions or are "sat" on by elephants, and still others stick flaming swords into their throats. Meanwhile, children are riding on devices assembled by people who may not have a high school diploma (at least that's the impression I get). These businesses…

At least circuses have low potential for fraud -- nobody gets eaten by a lion just for the cash. If airbnb started insuring (directly or indirectly) against damage caused by renters then there's quite a few ways for unscrupulous folks to try to rip that off.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#294

Post by a3camero »

jonhohle wrote: post #266
a3camero wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it is a solved problem or AirBNB would be using it. Imagine what the negotiations would be like. They need insurance for: -An open-ended number of people worldwide (constantly changing) -Any sort of property from shitty apartments all the way to fancy houses (no estimate of value possible, requires appraisers) -Damage/theft caused by people with unverified identities (all they have is CC, stolen?) -Any and al…

Imagine negotiating insurance for a mobile business where people are flung around 30+ feet in the air with no safety harness, others stick their heads in the mouths of lions or are "sat" on by elephants, and still others stick flaming swords into their throats. Meanwhile, children are riding on devices assembled by people who may not have a high school diploma (at least that's the impression I get). These businesses…

I'm not saying it's not possible but it is expensive (high risk = high cost). What's AirBNB's margin? They charge 10% but after expenses, can they make money paying the insurer X%? That's the fundamental question and I suspect it's "No".

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#295

Post by untog »

mhw wrote: post #216
brazzy wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me you're not serious. What you're asking for goes well beyond taking responsibility and far into the realm of treatment given to pop stars. Yeah, Airbnb could probably afford doing this out of PR considerations this once . But not for every single problematic hosting. And I do not believe the extent and support and compensation for crime victims should depend on their ability / luck in drumming up a soci…

> What Airbnb does need to do is find a sustainable method of dealing with incidents like this in the future. What Airbnb needs to do is find a method of preventing this type of incident in the future. They have to work out how to change the economics of the relationship so that the host isn't bearing all the risk and the visitor has some disincentives that keep their behaviour within acceptable bounds. At the moment…

> What Airbnb needs to do is find a method of preventing this type of incident in the future. They have to work out how to change the economics of the relationship so that the host isn't bearing all the risk and the visitor has some disincentives that keep their behaviour within acceptable bounds.

I'm not sure that's possible, though. And the host isn't bearing all of the risk- a guest could rent out a room and have the host murder them in their sleep. It's fundamentally a risky proposition, though I'm agree that the host bears more risk than the guest.

(search Google News for 'airbnb' and see how far the story has got so far)

Eh, search Google News for 'craigslist killer'- Craigslist is still doing alright for itself. No doubt it's a giant hurdle to overcome, but this isn't the end of AirBnb.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#296

Post by blader »

brianchesky wrote: post #186
edw519 wrote: post #141

Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: 1. Get a new place for EJ. Furnish it fully. Pay for everything. 2. Help her restore her virtual identity. Use any resources at your considerable disposal. 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures of her grandmother's jewelry to enlist a gia…

we are standing by, and we just contacted her again telling her that we will do whatever we can to help.

"we are standing by"

Then stop standing by. Telling someone you will help is not the same as helping.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#297

Post by AlexandrB »

krschultz wrote: post #283
jonhohle wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine negotiating insurance for a mobile business where people are flung around 30+ feet in the air with no safety harness, others stick their heads in the mouths of lions or are "sat" on by elephants, and still others stick flaming swords into their throats. Meanwhile, children are riding on devices assembled by people who may not have a high school diploma (at least that's the impression I get). These businesses…

That's not exactly the point. An insurance policy for a high risk activity - let's say skydiving - is very well definited. There are statistics on accident rates. There is a pretty defined payout when someone dies. The problem is not the risk level, it's the undefined nature of the problem. AirBnB doesn't know the value of the property they are renting. They don't have a long enough history to figure out what these k…

> Does AirBnB limit their pay out?

Yes. And make it clear that the payout is limited in the TOS. That way AirBnB/their insurer assume some well-defined amount of risk and it's not all on the renter.

The issue of insurance fraud is tougher though.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#298

Post by jeffdavis »

jonhohle wrote: post #266
a3camero wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it is a solved problem or AirBNB would be using it. Imagine what the negotiations would be like. They need insurance for: -An open-ended number of people worldwide (constantly changing) -Any sort of property from shitty apartments all the way to fancy houses (no estimate of value possible, requires appraisers) -Damage/theft caused by people with unverified identities (all they have is CC, stolen?) -Any and al…

Imagine negotiating insurance for a mobile business where people are flung around 30+ feet in the air with no safety harness, others stick their heads in the mouths of lions or are "sat" on by elephants, and still others stick flaming swords into their throats. Meanwhile, children are riding on devices assembled by people who may not have a high school diploma (at least that's the impression I get). These businesses…

You're missing the point. It may be that the rewards possible from renting out your house for a few nights might not be worth the risks in letting strangers into your home (at least under the current terms offered by Airbnb).

That would mean that AirBNB doesn't have a viable business model, or that it's a much smaller market than previously thought.

Saying "insurance will handle it" isn't an answer. AirBnb needs to come up with some creative and effective policies to solve the real underlying problems first. A good start would be better identity verification of renters.

Once they've turned it from a bad risk into a good risk for a large market of people, then they can outsource the details to an insurance company.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#299

Post by puredemo »

mikecaron wrote: post #276
iamelgringo wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all my years working in health care as an ER and trauma nurse, I learned one thing: Do the right thing for the patient. If the doctor is doing it wrong... do the right thing for the patient. If the hospital is doing it wrong... do the right thing for the patient. If a police officer is doing the wrong thing... do the right thing for the patient. The ultimate policy is... Do the right thing for the patient. AirBnb.…

I am in full agreement. I am not going to use AirBnB unless they do the right thing and stop spinning this. When EJ posts about how AirBnB found her a new apartment, hired a team of investigators and has used precious funding to get her life back in order, then I'll sign up. That will put them above the rest. THAT kind of action will show the world that personal care is more important to this company than dollar sign…

It's already too late for that. They've made their bed.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#300

Post by btucker »

What a huge missed opportunity for AirBnB! For a drop in the bucket of time & expense, they could have easily come out of this looking stellar & likely would have gained the business of many people who have been on the fence.

Instead the come out looking like they're trying to hide the flaws in their model.

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