Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

rentafounder.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 440 posts

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#291

Post by mkl »

btheshoe wrote: post #248

I'm not insane in thinking this stuff has to be super vulnerable to adversarial attacks, right? And it's not like adversarial attacks are a solved problem or anything.

Wouldn't you need a way to determine if an image you generate has a match in Apple's database?

The way it's set up, that's not possible: "Given a user image, the general idea in PSI is to apply the same set of transformations on the image NeuralHash as in the database setup above and do a simple lookup against the blinded known CSAM database. However, the blinding step using the server-side secret is not possible on device because it is unknown to the device. The goal is to run the final step on the server and finish the process on server. This ensures the device doesn’t know the result of the match, but it can encode the result of the on-device match process before uploading to the server." -- https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni... (emphasis mine)

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#292

Post by read_if_gay_ »

Big tech has been disintegrating the foundational principles on which our society is built in the name of our society. Every one of their moves is a deeper attack on personal freedom than the last. They need to be dealt with. Stop using their services, buying their products, defending them when they silence people.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#293

Post by moogly »

ohazi wrote: post #53
nine_k wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy a subcompact camera. Never upload such photos to any cloud. Use your local NAS / external disk / your Linux laptop's encrypted hard drive. Unless you prefer to live dangerously, of course.

Consumer NAS boxes like the ones from Synology or QNAP have "we update your box at our whim" cloud software running on them and are effectively subject to the same risks, even if you try to turn off all of the cloud options. I probably wouldn't include a NAS on this list unless you built it yourself. It looks like you've updated your comment to clarify Linux laptop's encrypted hard drive, and I agree with your line o…

Synology [...] have "we update your box at our whim"

You can turn off auto-updates on the Synology devices I own at least (1815+, 1817+).

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#294

Post by mrtksn »

mrtksn wrote: post #102
munk-a wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I missed a big part of this story Apple isn't being compelled by a court to comply - so if the presence of this tech causes a larger PR stink than publicly backing out of the rollout then Apple will read the writing on the wall. Public and political pressure is definitely an issue - but it's still soft-pressure so applying more pressure in the other direction will be compelling to Apple.

Apple was supposed to E2E encrypt everything. Then reports surfaced that FBI complained and they stopped. The are speculations about this being Apple’s solution to government demands so that they can continue migrating to E2E. They are trying a solution where the device reports you to the authorities so that Apple gets out of the business of knowing your data.

Just to clarify, this "on device content control" defies all the benefits of the E2E encryption because it is "at the end". It will enable Apple to implement E2E and give the authorities a channel to program the devices to report users in possession of content deemed unacceptable by the authorities.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#296

Post by l33t2328 »

tornato7 wrote: post #103
danachow wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple gigabytes is enough to ruin someone’s day but not a lot to surreptitiously transfer, it’s literally seconds. Just backdate them and they may very well go unnoticed.

It's also possible to 'hide' photos from the reel in the photos app. Many people are unaware of that feature so an attacker could hide as many photos they want in your iCloud.

How do you do that?

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#297

Post by l33t2328 »

gpm wrote: post #156
mrtksn wrote: post #72

The technical challenges aside, I’m very disturbed that my device will be reporting me to the authorities. That’s very different from authorities taking a sneak peek into my stuff. That’s like the theological concept of always being watched. It starts with child pornography but the technology is indifferent towards it, it can be anything. It’s always about the children because we all want to save the children. Soon t…

With you up to here, but this is jumping the shark > I bet you, after the next election in the US your device will be reporting you for spreading far right or deep state lies, depending on who wins. The US is becoming less stable, sure [1], but there is still a very strong culture of free speech, particularly political speech. I put the odds that your device will be reporting on that within 4 years as approximately 0…

I don’t see how the US is becoming “less stable” in any meaningful sense. Can you elaborate?

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#298

Post by l33t2328 »

visarga wrote: post #199
Decker87 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's been completely silenced. If you don't believe me, you can hear it from him next week when he's on the largest news network talking about being silenced.

Yes, because we all trust him at this point /s

You don’t have to believe him; it’s clear on the face of it. Trump often spoke directly to the voters on Twitter and Youtube. That’s gone now.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#299

Post by l33t2328 »

digi59404 wrote: post #164
jimmygrapes wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might amend #2 a bit to read "Be friends with the police" as that has historically been more beneficial to those who are.

The point that being friends with police will be beneficial to you - Means there's a scenario where the inverse is also true. Not being friends with police is used to your detriment. Police Officers exist in a career field that is riddled with incidents of Tunnel Vision. The sibling comment posts a video about not talking to police from a law professor. I'd heed that advice.

That law professor clearly never talked his way out of a speeding ticket.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#300

Post by mannerheim »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #266
goldenkey wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean liberal values. The paradox of the left includes censorship, gun control, etc..

FYI Illiberal values aka non-liberal values (clarifying because the I is hard to read) use the word liberal in the traditional sense. Liberal values are liberty/freedom, consent of the governed, and equality before the law. All other liberal values build off of these three as a base. This implies that Non-liberal (or illiberal) values are the opposition of liberal values through censorship, gun control, etc like you…

All the experience the Chinese people have accumulated through several decades teaches us to enforce the people's democratic dictatorship, that is, to deprive the reactionaries of the right to speak and let the people alone have that right.

- Mao Zedong

Post reply on HN