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CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

calyxos.org

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Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#291

Post by _rdvw »

zozbot234 wrote: post #259
_rdvw wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Verified boot is only enforcing on -user builds. Lineage ships -userdebug builds. Furthermore Lineage's official root addon writes to /system. You can't have any additional changes to system or else verified boot won't boot. You can't have it both ways as it stands. That isn't to say they are incompatible, you can compile-in root support before the system hashes are generated and then you can have a locked bootloader…

> But you cannot make any additional changes to /system with that root power afterwards. Not a showstopper, as modern root solutions like Magisk support "systemless" root, via file system overlays.

I am not sure how systemless root interacts with verified boot. I've never tried it myself.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#292

Post by hfkfktnekfm »

kristov wrote: post #271

I have been using LineageOS without google replacement libs for about a year. There is a huge amount of comments here, which is interesting in itself - clearly there is a lot of interest in de-googled Android. I worry about fragmentation, eg: if there are too many options will they get diluted without the larger user base. Many apps won't work without google libs. I would like to think that this puts pressure on app…

WhatsApp still works on a 9 year old Android I still have. Remember that a large part of the world doesn't have fancy phones, and WhatsApp needs to work on all kinds.

In fact, it's easier to install WhatsApp with severely limited permissions, while I just couldn't install the supposedly much more private Signal without giving it SMS access.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#293

Post by User23 »

yellow_lead wrote: post #83
dcow wrote: post #69

If you're unfamiliar with the context: Calyx Institute is a 501(c)(3) with a digital privacy and security mission. For a while they've offered, for a few hundred dollars a year donation, unmetered access to sprint's network. I don't know the details but I think they have retained access to the network through the merger due to some non-profit provision (something like the sprint merger was allowed with stipulation th…

More info here. https://calyxinstitute.org/ Looks like $500-$600 for 4G, and $750 for 4G/5G. Could be a good deal for certain people. But yes, it's lame you have to use the puck.

I purchased this several years ago. I don't regret it because I was buying to support the Calyx mission and not for the access point, but it worked reliably for about a month and then it got QoSed into unusability.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#294

Post by commoner »

grawprog wrote: post #31
m12k wrote: post #24

As someone who knows quite little about Android (currently in the Apple ecosystem, but considering jumping ship): When you use these privacy-focused Android versions without Google Play, is there a consistent way to get apps from the Play store to run on there? (e.g. download the APK from somewhere and sideload it). I'd really like an OS that doesn't spy on me, but there's e.g. some goverment ID apps, transit apps an…

There's places like APK mirror or Aurora which will download .apk's from the play store. The problem with degoogled phones isn't not accessing the google play store, it's not having the confusingly named google play services. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Play_Services A lot of apps rely on google play services. It mostly depends on how much of google play services an app requires as to whether it'll work on…

CalyxOS includes microG, which solves the compatibility issue for some of Google Play Services' most essential features, including push notifications, better geolocation, and map rendering. microG also keeps Google's in-app ads disabled.

Implementation status: https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/wiki/Implementation-Status

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#295

Post by entropy1111 »

tholdem wrote: post #272
riedel wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think it is kind of absurd that you have to buy a device from Google to degooglify it as CalyxOS does not support other devices. How difficult would it be to actually port it to a device already supported e.g. by lineage?

The OS in this case has nothing to do with not being able to be ported to other phones. Google is one of the few who will pay extra to Qualcomm for the ability for users to flash their own signing keys. Lineage does not support one of the most important security feature of any modern smartphone, lockable bootloader and verified boot. Lineage might be more privacy respecting than Googles Android, but far behind regard…

There's no point in using LineageOS after they dropped PrivacyGuard instead of expanding it. You start going down this road and suddenly you'll have a phone that doesn't pass SafetyNet anymore. You have to use 3rd-party applications and probably a ROM made by a random internet user not affiliated with LineageOS because they drop support for devices all the time. The phone manufacturers bribe ROM developers to do that or they just move on quickly.

MicroG is another really unstable experience. Google bought KaiOS and will buy the next KaiOS too. They moved and continue moving features to their proprietary castle. There's just no way you can win this fight against Google.

Long term the only solution is by some miracle a FOSS phone gets enough popularity for developers to want to make apps for it. I doubt it. My solution is unfortunately using two separates phones. Android and a FOSS one.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#296

Post by commoner »

theunspoken wrote: post #9
wingmanjd wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the Microsoft Android support require an Amazon account, though?

yes and no. first of all: which services does Amazon provide that would make an app dependent on them in the same way it might be on Google services? does Amazon have its own system for push notifications? for weather data? for syncing contacts? secondly: it has been confirmed that Android apps will be able to be sideloaded. a Microsoft employee tweeted about it but I can't really find the post right now

> does Amazon have its own system for push notifications?

Yes, but only for Amazon (Fire) devices. Amazon Device Messaging handles push notifications to Amazon devices:

https://developer.amazon.com/docs/adm/faq-adm.html

Microsoft might implement Amazon Device Messaging in Windows 11.

> secondly: it has been confirmed that Android apps will be able to be sideloaded. a Microsoft employee tweeted about it but I can't really find the post right now

Here: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/25/22550689/windows-11-andro...

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#297

Post by commoner »

fragileone wrote: post #34
jszymborski wrote: post #3

So, what's the current experience like on Android w/o Play services? I know at some point it was quite bad but that there were some up-and-coming solutions.

microG as a semi-Play Services experience is fine, the only issue I have is that most network-based geolocation backends tend to be hit or miss. I usually have to enable the Apple location service if I need a fast geolocation.

Mozilla Location Services is crowdsourced, and you can contribute data from your area with the Tower Collector app to make geolocation faster for you:

https://github.com/zamojski/TowerCollector

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#298

Post by nickcalyx »

cdesai wrote: post #241
phendrenad2 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If signature spoofing is confined to apps that I designate as spoofed (such as microg), then I'm okay with it. No security problem as far as I'm concerned. I'd like to see people make their own apps that don't rely on Google services (or faked Google services) of course, like the Linux ecosystem.

On CalyxOS only microG can signature spoof, no other app can.

* and it can only spoof one signature, that of google play services

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#299

Post by kelnos »

brundolf wrote: post #132
vbsteven wrote: post #113

I’m thinking about buying a degoogled Android phone to replace my iPhone. The main things I want are: * Spotify needs to work over Bluetooth in my car * WhatsApp needs to work (preferably with push notifications) * I need the Fitbit app to work so my watch can show push notifications from my personal apps * a network-based location provider to be consumed by my personal apps (I’m working on a personal data and automa…

> Can other Android flavours like GrapheneOS or LineageOS do this? There's a separate question you're missing: what your Google Services situation is Distros like Lineage come without Google Services; if you want them, you install them yourself "gapps" is the official one. It's straight Google everything. Lineage OS + gapps will give you a very clean and nice Android experience if you don't care about Google collecti…

Thanks for the frank details about the downsides.

If I can't use my banking apps, Lyft, Google Pay, Photos, Maps, etc. with a particular mobile OS (with all features working), then it's unfortunately not for me.

It seems like most of the Android alternatives throw the baby out with the bathwater. I get that making a trusted OS based on Android is hard, especially with Google having moved so much core functionality into Play Services, but the value I get out of my phone is mostly from mainstream apps, using mainstream features (like push notifications and location services). If those don't work, to me it's not really a useful device.

I get that a lot of these apps aren't particularly privacy-oriented, but to me, my main concern is that there are a lot of Google-owned core components to the OS and userland that actively subvert my privacy. I'd really like to think there's some middle ground on Android where I can trust the OS and userspace core, and still run the apps I usually run.

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