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Where are the robotic bricklayers?

constructionphysics.substack.com

291–300 of 564 posts

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#291
post #28

The great contempt that computer people have for the skills that every human brings to the jobs that the do is always on display here. We haven't automated driving; we haven't automated picking tomatoes; we haven't automated bricklaying; we can't automate cooking a fucking hamburger. But they are completely convinced that it's just around the corner, because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of…

> because they are full of contempt for the skill and intelligence of ordinary people

No. They just don’t know what makes it hard. I don’t know where the robot train drivers are. We’re doing cars and planes but it seems trains have fewer things to worry about. I don’t feel contempt for train drivers, the limitation is mine. I don’t understand. I still think I deserve to live.

I love this guy’s videos. He’s a fantastic insight into a world I barely know: https://youtu.be/qP1AmDRhoas

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are already starting to see automated programming moving out of the research lab and into the commercial realm Every step in programming tooling since programs stopped being input as manual hardware configuration has been automation of programming, and its just made more work, and higher paying work, for programmers.

Not the same programmers though nor the same job though. The job of programmer-by-plugging-in-wires was still eliminated.

> Not the same programmers though nor the same job though.

The details of job changed, as more low level pieces of it were automated leaving the higher-level, more abstract bits, but for most of the changes, while some either bailed for other work or rode the dying embers of the old way to retirement, programmers generally adapted.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#293
The article claims the difficulty is with the non-newtonian mortar, but this doesn't pass the sniff test. Non-newtonian fluids are easy to model and position feedback is common in virtually all modern automation systems. I say this as someone who used to do masonry work, worked in a rheology lab in college and is now an industrial automation engineer. The fact that numerous attempts to make bricklaying systems that didn't involve mortar but still did not succeed would certainly seem to indicate that mortar is not the dealbreaker. Indeed, the fact masonry assistant machines haven't seen wide adoption suggests that the problem has nothing to do with software.

Nature has optimized the design of muscles and skeletons over tbe course of hundreds of millions of years. People tend not to appreciate just how good of an actuator muscle is. You can certainly beat it in power, speed, precision, duty cycle, or form factor, but not all at once. Bricks and blocks are specifically optimized for being handled by a human laborer: they are small enough that a human arm can precisely manipulate them but big enough that you don't need to place an absurd number of them. Anything that's optimized for human manipulation will be difficult for a robot to manipulate.

A typical block weighs about 35 lbs. A robot arm capable of even lifting a payload that heavy will cost you somewhere on the order of 80k not including end of arm tooling, weigh hundreds of pounds, and draw several kilowatts of electricity. Then you need to take this arm and put it on some platform capable of moving around a job site such that it can reach any place a human could. At scale, you're probably looking at a quarter million dollar machine just to get a brick near where it needs to go. Combined with maintenance costs, it's likely such a system would never pay for itself over its useful life. Maybe you could do a little better with bricks but 5 lbs is still a lot for a precision robot. All the artificial intelligence in the world is useless if the actuators just aren't up to the task.

For better or worse, human muscle is cheap, it can be leased with no money down, and you typically don't need to pay for maintenance. That it comes equipped with an extremely powerful computing system for no additional charge is just icing on the cake. People tend to have the mistaken belief that things which are conceptually simple must be easy to automate and that things which are hard to automate must be secretly complex, but that's not really it at all. Tasks appear simple to us because we are good at doing them, and they appear complicated when we're not. Picking ripe fruit seems like such a simple task to us because that is exactly what we evolved to do. Simulating quantum chemistry, not so much. Picking fruit isn't secretly more complicated than quantum chemistry, but it's much easier to automate the latter because it's not hard to be better than a human at a task humans perform poorly to begin with.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#294

The value of work is not in the work done; it's in the decisions being made. It's the ability to handle edge cases, to work your way through ambiguity, to "unstuck" a stuck situation, and to resolve tricky unforeseen issues. If you build a robot that only handles the main workflow and can't handle any of the exceptions, you're not automating anything; you're building a convenience tool. Basically, you're removing som…

> The value of work is not in the work done; it's in the decisions being made. It's the ability to handle edge cases, to work your way through ambiguity, to "unstuck" a stuck situation, and to resolve tricky unforeseen issues.

The first part describes programming perfectly.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#295

The question I would have around automated building construction is "why use bricks?". Bricks are great for humans to build with, they are just the right size and weight for the human hand to manipulate and place. They are not optimised for machine manipulation. I would guess that if you wanted to automate construction you would start by making things like walls on an automated production line, then ship the largest…

Agreed. Bricks aren’t great for construction. Not structural, poor R-value, a ton of labor. Just have concrete poured or stick frame and a fake brick facade. Will probably last longer as well. Seems like the wrong problem to solve.

Bricks can last a long time.

Brick houses also hold their value well.

No one cares about a brick facade.

Also why do you say bricks aren't structural? I assumed those 100 year old brick houses used bricks for structural support.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#296
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also seem to always miss that we always engineer the product in order to be able to automate it. The most automated things have been designed by engineers with robotic assembly in mind .

> [mortor] it’s a non-newtonian fluid, and it’s viscosity increases when it’s moved or shaken. Which is why the points about non-Newtonian fluids like mortor changing viscosity seems right on the money. Anyone trying automation with normal mortor gives me zero confidence. I like the robot truck idea, seems like a winner compared to others. Exo suits / better humans in the meantime, purpose built machines later.

Bogus reason. Plastic melt is also a non-Newtonian fluid and yet plastic parts production is thoroughly automated.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> physical job for 50 years I think you’re envisioning jobs with high skill requirements or low demand, or a mix of both. Like landscaper for the town, or garbage truck operator. Otherwise you’ll generally be met with a combination of RSI, hazardous product ingestion (dust, paint fumes, exhaust…), allergies, injuries, or sheer overwork. Working a low wage low level physical job is more often than not closer to Amazon…

I just want to iterate that working an office job also carries with it its own health problems. Low physical activity from sitting all day, forward posture from sitting all day, RSI from typing and mouse movement, eye problems, overwork (Arguably more than labor jobs).

As someone that has worked digging ditches and carrying shingles up a ladder all day. I respectfully disagree. They are not remotely comparabe.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#298

The value of work is not in the work done; it's in the decisions being made. It's the ability to handle edge cases, to work your way through ambiguity, to "unstuck" a stuck situation, and to resolve tricky unforeseen issues. If you build a robot that only handles the main workflow and can't handle any of the exceptions, you're not automating anything; you're building a convenience tool. Basically, you're removing som…

I’d add to the list of why partial automation isn’t worth it: it’s more satisfying to build a brick wall than babysit a bricklaying machine. Doing the physical labor is difficult. My father was a bricklayer from ten to fifty, when he finally had to stop working. But he loved showing me the buildings he built. He helped build city government buildings, schools, libraries. The pride he felt, that he’d built something w…

My dad was a stair builder his whole career until finally becoming a freelance carpenter after getting laid off. Stairs, like bricks, are probably another implement that us techies use daily with absolutely no appreciation for complexity and skill involved. Spiral staircases are an incredible work of craftsmanship, or at least they were. I used to go to the shop with my dad when I was a kid. They would rig up these big timber structures to wrap handrails and stringers around to form the spiral. He worked out the geometry on paper (or more likely on the timber itself) writing with flat pencils that he sharpened with his pocket knife. You couldn't just mass produce the handrails either. It took time, pinned to the template, for the wood to become permanently warped into a spiral.

Years later, I ended up getting a job as a 5-axis CNC operator in the same shop. My dad thought it'd be a suitable job for me because I was good with computers, so he introduced me to the foreman in the strait stairs side of the shop. I was only cutting stair stringers, so it was basically mind-numbing data entry on some crappy Visual Basic app and then running the CNC which frequently got hung and ruined materials. The spiral staircase end of the shop was also different than from what I remembered as a kid. They still had a couple of the old-school spiral staircases in production at any given time, but those were special order. How do they churn out mass produced spiral staircases for tasteless McMansions? They glue a bunch of chunks of wood together and use a CNC to route out the negative space. Of course the grain of the wood doesn't match up like spiral constructed from one plank. The product looks like dog shit. The CNC screws up a non-negligible percent of the time resulting in tons of wasted materials. I and all the CNC operators I talked to loathed the machines we operated. They were all crappy Chinese tech, and it felt like tedious babysitting, not craftsmanship. I'd rather be swinging a hammer than do that job again.

I wonder how the finances even come out ahead. Does no one care about how their house looks? They'd rather just cargo cult an ugly McMansion that was produced at the lowest cost possible? My dad is a curmudgeon about tech in general, but it's not hard to see why. He was a master craftsman, and because "the industry" was headed in another direction, he was eventually replaced by a bunch of button pushers that can produce a low-quality simulacrum the same thing at a fraction of the cost.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's the robot that can actually pick up and move pieces on standard chessboard, with no special guidelines or restrictions on pieces?

Seriously? There's lots of them on YouTube. Here's one with two different robots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65YDAXfSAWw

Nope. Those are pre-programmed to know "the board is here", "the pieces start here". Give them a random (but still legal) position, ask them to make the best legal move. See if they can even find a piece

Quick test: replace any pawn with a queen. See if the bot notices.

Re: Where are the robotic bricklayers?

#300
post #237

The value of work is not in the work done; it's in the decisions being made. It's the ability to handle edge cases, to work your way through ambiguity, to "unstuck" a stuck situation, and to resolve tricky unforeseen issues. If you build a robot that only handles the main workflow and can't handle any of the exceptions, you're not automating anything; you're building a convenience tool. Basically, you're removing som…

> This is why partial robotic systems don't really exist; either it's a nifty tool that speeds up a small repeatable process of your work, or it's building the entire house. I think I understand your overall point, but what you said isn't exactly true. Isn't "speed up a repeatable process" essentially a partial robotic system? Just look at a modern car manufacturing plant - it's essentially one big chain of robotics…

Yeah, but houses are rarely like a serial manufactured car. Sometimes you have to lay down every row of bricks differently with a ton of unplanned (or unplannable) things to account for, because the electrician might work while you lay your brick etc.

Not that you cannot automate whole houses and sell them off the shelve for cheap (see prefabs), it just isn't something that could be done at a site where your brickbot 2000 has to share the job both with the workers whose jobs it replaces and with people from non-brickbot-2000-educated workers from different companies.

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