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“Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”
291–300 of 363 posts
Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t think its as simple as respect the authors wishes. You are participating in a large OS ecosystem as soon as you become a dependency of another project. Most people don’t care about the package in this case and just want the package that is using it. The author is additionally being intentionally dense and inflammatory. They are unlikely to get their way acting like this instead of trying to find a compromise…
> You are participating in a large OS ecosystem as soon as you become a dependency of another project. It also seems the author wrote this library specifically to be included in Home assistant (since HA only allows glue code to be included in the core and keep the implementation specific parts in dependencies) and does a lot of HA development. So he knew what he was getting into. It's not like he's library was added…
Why publish it on the common infrastructure of python instead of some homeassistant project specific infrastructure then?
Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would they even know to ask upstream for support, rather than the fork? If you use package bar and have a problem, you would have to do a lot of digging to even find original progject foo and ask them for help (which wouldn't even make sense since it's a separate thing)
I guess that depends on how users go about finding projects on github to file issues. If, for example, the user has an issue with this NixOS package (or debian package/any other repackaged example), and they start by just searching "python ambee github" or "Home Assistant ambee github" (seems like a reasonable first attempt to me) they will likely find the upstream near the top of the results. Now, some users will pe…
That's fair; I was assuming that the fork would be renamed substantially enough to obscure the origin.
Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”
#294Seems like an author that doesn't understand the spirit of FOSS. The nixos team was clearly allowed to use it and include it when asking for some technical merits as to why, and even offering many alternative options to appease the author the author seemed to just childishly stamp their feet and say, "because I said so". Eventually the author took the position of "taking my ball and going home". Why is a person like…
I think there’s some emotional nuance here. After a certain point he basically said all of his technical justification and the request does boil down to “because I said so and I’m the author.” The Nix maintainers explicitly do not want to respect the author’s wishes (which is fine) but that makes the whole thing turn adversarial because “okay we won’t include it” wasn’t even something the maintainers considered for e…
> It was pretty level headed discussion until it was clear that their only motivation was getting to yes or enough justification to ignore him.
No, they offered solutions and only gave up when the author refused to provide any actual objection other than that he didn't like it. "Doesn't want people to file bug reports because downstream broke something" is a reasonable objection, but it's also a fixable problem. "The only thing that will ever make me happy is you completely removing this package from your distro" is neither.
Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”
#295Anyone who claims to care about the mental health of open source devs should be on the author's side here
The author however is hired by the commercial entity behind Home assistant. And I'm not against making money using open source software. But when you build your company and income on an open source license and the work of others you should respect that license both ways.
Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Is it the official policy of the home-assistant project that their software should not be packaged by NixOS? I have the impression that it is the policy of the home-assistant project that their software should not be run in any way not supported by them, and not redistributed by any distribution or other third party. They're somewhat actively hostile against people not following that.
Why is it that projects grant rights to users and then are hostile to us using those rights?
This is what really confuses me! HA/frenk clearly are developing open source software, so they grant downstream users all the rights that go with that, including distribution rights.
So far, so good, until folks actually leverage the rights frenk handed them and he shows up and says "Please respect my wishes and don't distribute my open source code." I can see how this is very confusing for a packaging team.
It sounds like the "correct" approach here is for frenk (and HA?) to signal this lack of flexibility up front and stop distributing HA under an open source license. This will at least prevent other projects from investing in a packaging effort only to be asked to stop somewhere along the way.
Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”
#297Well, Home Assistant's handling of this is well-timed. I was just looking at the possibility of redoing my openHAB config in HA but this makes it really clear I don't want to go within a 150 mile radius of HA.
I've been using HA a lot in the past and written some components. But a while back they moved away from allowing pure YAML configurations and required some components to do setup via the GUI only. So it's not longer trivial to make a immutable deployment of HA since you will always need to manually make adjustments afterwards.
Hah! I guess they don't like the Nix approach on multiple levels :D.
Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is it that projects grant rights to users and then are hostile to us using those rights?
This is what really confuses me! HA/frenk clearly are developing open source software, so they grant downstream users all the rights that go with that, including distribution rights. So far, so good, until folks actually leverage the rights frenk handed them and he shows up and says "Please respect my wishes and don't distribute my open source code." I can see how this is very confusing for a packaging team. It sound…
If they stop releasing it under an open source license then they lose access to all the free infrastructure that various companies and communities are providing.
Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”
#299I find it quite amusing that the package author refuses to act reasonably and states he wishes to spend no time on the project, whilst being pulled further into the project. If he simply willingly engaged with the project owners to resolve the situation he could avoided: 1. Spending so much time trying to get the project to stop what they were doing. 2. Peacefully come to a mutually beneficial arrangement. 3. Front p…
This attitude has done a lot of reputational damage to Home Assistant which is unfortunate.
Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a traditionally distro wouldn't even bother packaging any of this stuff or engage at all. unfortunately the library author made a PR to Home Assistant, a program that is packaged in many distro; all those distro will add his package. see https://github.com/home-assistant/core/pull/51645
Is home-assistant packaged in any traditional distro like Debian or Fedora? I didn't think so. So long as everyone is supposed to just grab some docker container or OS image from the home-assistent people, the traditional distros that should back up NixOS here won't even be looped in.
There's literally a comment in there about Fedora having packaged it.