Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

Post by mindslight » Mon, Jun 07, 2021, 12:52 AM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #280

mindslight wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taylor was killed because her boyfriend exercised his second amendment rights. There are no charges to contest, because the police on the scene acted as judge, jury, and executioner. That there aren't charges against the extrajudicial killers ("murderers") to be litigated is exactly the problem. The NRA does plenty of activism that doesn't involve defending people against charges, but for this incident they've been s…

I am very much in favor of getting rid of no knock raids. I believe the NRA or other pro gun groups should defend any person who shoots cops who do no knock raids. If we are going to have no knock raids I believe they should be heavily restricted and need approval from the mayor, governor or president (depending on the law enforcement agency). However, I do not believe a pro gun group should work to get rid of no kno…

Post by bradleyjg » Mon, Jun 07, 2021, 12:56 AM UTC

xbar wrote: post #198

Avshalom wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know free speech isn't the only civil liberty right?

True. We also need to keep soldiers from moving into our homes. More seriously, the ACLU has always faced an identity crisis and a consequent PR problem. If the ACLU embraced all civil liberties, wouldn't you expect more Bill-Of-Rights-T-Shirt wearers to be more supportive?

Post by TchoBeer » Mon, Jun 07, 2021, 1:00 AM UTC

vmception wrote: post #28

mjmahone17 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s probably reasonable for an organization to choose not to conflate the civil liberties they stand for with amendments. In an ideal world the people would happily eliminate or modify laws that do harm, and of the existing US civil liberties, the 2nd amendment is likely the most debatable on whether it is a net win for liberty.

Even the most extreme proponents of the 2nd amendment have examples of it working The various police forces during the capital seige - in January, remember how that was this year - said they used less force because the participants were armed and knew they could shoot back Their whole thing is that they will make the state think twice, whereas the peaceful and unarmed protestors get knocked around with no recourse Wi…

Post by TchoBeer » Mon, Jun 07, 2021, 1:02 AM UTC

akvadrako wrote: post #67

JohnTHaller wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"ACLU Position: Given the reference to "a well regulated Militia" and "the security of a free State," the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right." https://www.aclu.org/other/second-amendment

That's a pretty stupid position, since it's pretty clear the 2nd amendment is saying that it's a right of "the people". The preface is to explain the reason it's a right, that is to form the Militia, which is commonly understood to consist of most able-bodied men. If individuals aren't allowed to own and practice with weapons normally, then when it's needed the Militia will not be "well-regulated", as in well-armed o…

Post by lr4444lr » Mon, Jun 07, 2021, 1:03 AM UTC

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #282

slowmovintarget wrote: post #31

Free speech is table stakes for a free society. Those claiming otherwise are playing with fire.

Devil's Advocate: If I could trade quality UBI for some restrictions on speech I'd probably take the deal. The ability to tell a bad employer to go fuck himself/herself without the threat of homelessness, decent healthcare without bankruptcy, or a guarantee of affordable housing, is worth far more to me than the ability to spew racist or conspiratorial crap on forums, for example.