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On Smoking

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Re: On Smoking

#291

Post by mlang23 »

version_five wrote: post #13
murat131 wrote: post #3

The thing about smoking is that when you quit smoking you quit it every day. Imagine a light switch on the wall. You turn it off by quitting smoking and you can always go back at a desperate time for instance and turn it on. And some time later off again. Smoking your first cigarette implants that light switch on your mind and you can't make it go away. Since you know how it makes you feel good when the switch is on,…

Agreed. The article mentions becoming a new person - for me, it's different, I'm still a smoker, I just don't smoke anymore. I quit 10 years ago, and I won't start again, but I still want to smoke every day. I rarely see this discussed when people talk about addiction. You can't un-ring the bell so to speak, and once you know you can do something you enjoy, you don't just forget about it. The cliche of the addict tie…

I think there is a vast difference how individuals deal with addictions. Some are better at it, and some are pretty hopeless. I have been smoking nicotine on-and-off since more then 20 years. But I still have no craving when I stop. Last time I realized how strong the difference is was when I did a overseas flight. After 12 hours flight, first touchdown on some island for refuel. A friend of mine was desperately trying to find a place to smoke. She basically used all the 60 minutes she had seeking an opportuinty to smoke at least one cigarette. I was watching her the whole time, pretty amused, realizing that I have no craving at all. That doesnt mean I didnt smoke a cigarette a few hours later when we finally arrived and left the airport. But watching the difference from person to person was pretty interesting.

Re: On Smoking

#292

Post by nicolas_t »

strken wrote: post #168
defaultname wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your stats in absolutely no way counters my claim about addiction. Almost everyone who smokes to any degree becomes addicted and a regular user. Tens (100 million+) of millions of Americans drink occasionally with no addiction. Alcohol is a dangerous drug in every dimension, and I specifically said that. But their addiction profiles are dramatically different.

This is an absolutely ridiculous claim given the number of people I know who've had a first cigarette and not touched a second. Business Insider claims 76% of the population have smoked and 24% have become addicted, while 92% have consumed alcohol and 14% have become addicted[0]. That's nowhere near "almost everyone", it's 31%, and 15% for alcohol. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/most-addictive-substances...

I think there's an important difference to make, I know a lot of people who have smoked once or a few times and have not become addicted but I don't know anyone who smoked regularly and didn't become addicted.

On the other hand for alcohol, I know a lot of people who will have a glass of wine whenever they go to a nice restaurant yet are not addicted.

So there's a magnitude of difference. Nicotine is significantly more addictive for anyone who uses it semi regularly whereas alcohol is not as addictive in that case.

Re: On Smoking

#293

Post by mlang23 »

Cederfjard wrote: post #27
version_five wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The article mentions becoming a new person - for me, it's different, I'm still a smoker, I just don't smoke anymore. I quit 10 years ago, and I won't start again, but I still want to smoke every day. I rarely see this discussed when people talk about addiction. You can't un-ring the bell so to speak, and once you know you can do something you enjoy, you don't just forget about it. The cliche of the addict tie…

I’m not an expert, but from what I’ve read, tobacco (especially cigarettes) are up there with the most addictive substances. Like, competing with cocaine and heroin. Obviously since the mind-altering effects are much more subtle, and it’s legal, it’s less disruptive (at least until it gets you sick).

Comparing heroin, cocaine and nicotine as if they were similar pretty much shows that your experience only comes from reading about them :-)

Re: On Smoking

#294

Post by reissbaker »

raducu wrote: post #251
reissbaker wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. I quit smoking a little over a decade ago, gradually, by winnowing myself down cigarette-by-cigarette. If I smoked six cigarettes a day, for the next two weeks I'd smoke five; by the end of two weeks I'd stop feeling the urge for a sixth. Then I'd move down to four, etc etc, until finally I was down to two and just stopped entirely. For the first year after stopping regularly smoking, I still felt the urge when d…

You must have enormous will power to taper nicotine. I'm addicted to nicotine, though not cigarettes (though I do smoke on social ocasions, but the nicotine in just one cigarette available in the EU does nothing for me), and I've "quit" numerous times for months, but my (undiagnosed) ADHD brings me back to it. It is such a perverse stimulant. I've taken hardcore stimulants and never got addicted, but nicotine has suc…

For me, tapering nicotine was about as hard as getting daily exercise. Instead of a bit of muscle soreness or tension, I'd get a mild headache towards the end of the day for the first few days of a two-week cycle. About halfway through the two weeks it would usually stop, and while I'd still want the extra cigarette, I wouldn't get a headache from skipping it.

I suspect if you're using enough nicotine that you can't feel the effect of a cigarette, you're probably using a lot more than I was getting from smoking. I'm not sure if my advice is equally useful for you, but I hope you manage to kick the addiction cycle at some point.

Re: On Smoking

#295

Post by choeger »

I never understood why we need these black & white labels when it comes to substance usage. Obviously, never smoking any tobacco whatsoever is the healthiest option. But so is never drinking any alcohol or never eating any sweets. But it should also be obvious that every cigarette you do not smoke and every beer you do not drink as well as every chocolate bar you do not eat is an improvement for your health. I don't think you are failing unless you completely stop using a specific substance. You are failing when you are not trying to improve.

Why not start by not smoking for a day, a week, a month? Why not consider your internalized, automated habits (like smoking one cigarrete after lunch) and try to eliminate them one by one if you feel like they control you instead of the other way around?

Re: On Smoking

#296

Post by maccard »

prionassembly wrote: post #245
IggleSniggle wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow non-smoker to another, but with a very different experience. Over a decade ago, I tried chewing tobacco. Definitely a stimulant, but of the relaxing variety. It’s like a shot of adrenaline but only on your brain and with no negative feeling side-effects. Or like eating an especially delicious gourmet hamburger that is both interesting in its complexity and relaxing at the same time. The noticeably pleasant men…

> a stimulant of the relaxing variety This: what other substance in the world relaxes and stimulates at the same time?

Caffeine and L-theanine (coffee and green tea)

Re: On Smoking

#297

Post by joeberon »

qq4 wrote: post #202

Since there seem to be past smokers in this thread, can any of you chime in for me what smoking did or does for you? I don't mean this as a insult, but I've never understood the addiction, at this point I feel like it's impossible for me to experience, and I don't desire to. I've smoked maybe a dozen or so times in my life, each time a dumb decision often for comedic effect where I asked myself afterwards, "am I addi…

It definitely depends how you smoke imo, and probably your predisposition to it. I have tobacco in joints, and I don't smoke weed that much, and I also smoke cigarettes on rare occasions, e.g. on MDMA. I've probably smoked about 100 in my life. I have had moments before where in the day I've thought "I should have a cigarette". However each time that thought has scared me into not having one. In the end it just never grabbed me, and I could go forever without any tobacco without an issue. I don't consider myself addicted to weed either and yet still I would less like to give that up forever than tobacco. So it depends how you use it. If you start to use it with regularity then I think that makes it more likely to hook you.

There is definitely a high associated with nicotine. My wife gets it extremely strongly. It can be quite trippy and even anxiety inducing, or anxiety reducing. It can be both stimulating and relaxing at the same time, almost feeling like an LSD microdose in the weird body feeling. However people who have smoked for any long period don't really get that high anymore

Re: On Smoking

#298

Post by joeberon »

kuschku wrote: post #275
refulgentis wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my head, the lozenge is background noise whereas the cigarette means I'm outside, gotta get a jacket, mask on, bring a coffee, etc

So why not do the coffee break outside, without the cigarette?

Well, coffee doesn't contain nicotine

Re: On Smoking

#299

Post by maccard »

refulgentis wrote: post #227
qq4 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always had a hard time with this because I would think we would see people horribly addicted to nicotine patches and lozenges if this were true. What makes a cigarette so different?

There's a ritual, an experience. There's something _to do_: I don't understand how you live your day, you just sit at the same desk in the same small apartment all day? No pause? It's like hearing someone prefers an 8 hour movie Edit: this isn't...an attack...it's a humorous attempt to gat at genuinely how I feel, as a smoker, about people who don't smoke

I totally get the ritual. The process of grinding coffee and preparing the cups, milk, filter and machine takes ~ 5 minutes or so every morning, and it's one of my favorite parts of the day.

I've got a dog and live next to a park. Taking 45 minutes out of my morning and afternoon to walk her gives me more "headspace" than anything else ive tried.

I guess I get my kicks elsewhere?

Re: On Smoking

#300

Post by carlmr »

mlang23 wrote: post #282
rytis wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Annoyingly there can be slight imbalance. If a smoker takes 10 min break every hour, it's seen as "ok, he's just having a smoke". If a nonsmoker takes the same 10 mins break to check on their phone, or just chill outside, it's "oh, I've noticed you're away from your desk quite often". It's not a rule, but I've seen this happen more often that not.

Actually, where I live, people working with monitors have 10 min break every hour, by law. Most people dont use that. And no, I have never heard a case where a non-smoker was bullied for taking a 15 minute break. Never. I guess I should praise my place of birth and workplace.

Maybe you should, because I've experienced it a few times. Not in recent years though, as smoking has become a minority thing in all the offices I've seen in the last 5 years.
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