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China lands rover on Mars

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Re: China lands rover on Mars

#291

Post by publicola1990 »

HDMI_Cable wrote: post #260
publicola1990 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It had some coverage here, it was one of the three probes headed for Mars this year, other two being the US and UAE probes. The rover itself is not as larges as the Perseverance or Curiosity, but their orbiter seems a quite heavy probe. Hope we will get some detailed high-resolution images of the surface from the orbiter, so that we can have even better surface maps of Mars. Also the CNSA programs don't get as much c…

Wait the UAE is sending a probe to mars? I haven't heard anything about this. Is it going to be a rover, or just a satellite?

It is an orbiter, and is already in orbit around Mars.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#292

Post by vasac »

walrus01 wrote: post #200
rich_sasha wrote: post #179

To the (flagged) comments about China stealing research: I’ll abstract from lack of evidence. Just stealing isn’t enough. Russia, I believe, ended up admitting stealing research on the Space Shuttle, and despite that their own project never really materialised. Even. You steal, that lets you catch up, not overtake. So even if China is helping themselves (again, I don’t know), they still have to innovate and improve.…

In its own right I find it a fairly major technical achievement that the first and only orbital flight of buran was unmanned, landing on a runway with no human at the controls. That's one thing the US never did with the shuttle.

That's because Russians can copy things even when US even doesn't make them in the first place ;)

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#293

Post by qshaman »

BelenusMordred wrote: post #247
RocketMan9999 wrote: post #208

I'm a Chinese guy and I don't like this at all. Here's some Chinese perspective: 1. The CNSA is severely underfunded in recent years, to the extent that a considerable amount of space tech graduates went directly into other more "lucrative" fields such as the IT industry. 2. This landing operation was not announced beforehand. This is a bit unusual, when compared to the past operations, e. g. the first manned space f…

> The CNSA is severely underfunded in recent years Source?

I thought “I’m a Chinese guy” was his source

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#294

Post by freshair »

908B64B197 wrote: post #280
iso1210 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crying "No fair! You stole it!" sounds more like a petulant child than anything else. It's also exactly what made nasa in the first place, with America stealing much of rocket science from the Germans in the wake of WW2.

I think a lot of German scientists were pretty happy to be "stolen" by a democracy and given the means to leave 1930's Germany. Not at all the same as what's going on right now [0] [0] https://www.justice.gov/usao-az/pr/former-raytheon-engineer-...

von Braun and his team specifically sought out Americans to surrender to. Characterizing a surrender as "theft" (as though people are property?!) is truly bizarre.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#295

Post by freshair »

adolph wrote: post #284
gutfhjkvdsw wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really stealing when the individuals who did the work for America voluntarily left Germany due to its foray into authoritarianism? Seems more like a windfall for a country with better human rights than a theft, to me.

Operation Paperclip was a secret US intelligence program in which more than 1,600 Nazi scientists, engineers, and technicians were taken from Nazi Germany to the United States for government employment after the end of World War II in Europe, primarily between 1945 and 1959. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

"were taken" suggests they had no say in the matter, which is not true at least in the case of many.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun#Surrender_to...

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#296

Post by bilbo0s »

ghhchjb wrote: post #218
Dah00n wrote: post #191

What I find very exciting and something that is totally lacking from any news articles and discussions I have seen outside space-geek circles is that China is actually very much open to cooperate with other agencies. The China Russia plan of a base on the moon is open to partners whom would like to join: International Lunar Research Station. https://spacenews.com/china-russia-open-moon-base-project-to...

> The China Russia plan of a base on the moon is open to partners whom would like to join Including Taiwan?

China and Russia don't consider Taiwan a nation.

We do. But they don't.

It'd be like the US saying that Ambazonia or Palestine can participate in the ISS program. I'm sure the we'd happily let any other African nation participate for instance, but we don't recognize Ambazonia. And we consider it irrelevant that anyone else does. Needless to say, participation under a Palestinian flag would be a non starter.

I'm almost positive China would have the same sort of policy.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#297

Post by JKCalhoun »

brobdingnagians wrote: post #223
iso1210 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crying "No fair! You stole it!" sounds more like a petulant child than anything else. It's also exactly what made nasa in the first place, with America stealing much of rocket science from the Germans in the wake of WW2.

I was just telling my wife about this yesterday and how Wernher von Braun basically saved the US rocket program; or, at least, it was having major difficulties before, and major successes after he joined up. And, in addition, the Germans in the 1930s got a lot of good information from Robert H. Goddard, the inventor who built the first liquid-fueled rocket; Werner von Braun said, about him, "His rockets ... may have…

> And, in addition, the Germans in the 1930s got a lot of good information from Robert H. Goddard

Is that true? I have read that, unlike the German rocket club, Goddard was very secretive — more like closed-source.

Thanks to the open German rocket club, they solved the engineering difficulty of a high speed pump to deliver fuel to the engines. Goddard appears to have stalled there.

So the U.S. gets the German scientists, some hardware. They seem to have wanted to have both a peaceful, scientific track for rocket research and a military one.

Werner got the military track with the Army. Developing, among other things, the Redstone.

The peaceful, scientific track became NASA when Sputnik circled the Earth. Failing to get their own JPL rockets off the ground, the U.S. turns to the Army .... hey, Werner, anything you can do with your Redstone to help us out here?

That's my take anyhow. Someone with deeper historical knowledge can correct my wild generalizations.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#298

Post by adolph »

estaseuropano wrote: post #197
op03 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the Voyager missions were launched most of the world didn't have international calling. So making a call from lets say Somalia to the US, involved finding a post office with the only international line in town and "booking" a call. Which meant you had to walk over and write down your name (and if you were lucky enough to have a local landline your 4 digit phone number) in a ledger and then walk back home to sit…

Spanish colonies heard months after the event that the Spanish king(s) had abdicated. There were peoples fighting in the name of kings that didn't exist anymore...

Well, if there is a state partition in an always available application like humans then consistency cannot be guaranteed.

a Japanese holdout who did not surrender at the war's end in August 1945. After the war ended Onoda spent 29 years hiding out in the Philippines until his former commander travelled from Japan to formally relieve him from duty by order of Emperor Shōwa in 1974.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAP_theorem

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#299

Post by vimacs2 »

RocketMan9999 wrote: post #208

I'm a Chinese guy and I don't like this at all. Here's some Chinese perspective: 1. The CNSA is severely underfunded in recent years, to the extent that a considerable amount of space tech graduates went directly into other more "lucrative" fields such as the IT industry. 2. This landing operation was not announced beforehand. This is a bit unusual, when compared to the past operations, e. g. the first manned space f…

Sorry but I don't think you do respect "the engineers and scientists who made the marvel achievement" if the only thing that you are able to get out of this is as a publicity stunt to please the CCP.

It is not an understatement for me to say that I abhor the US empire as a whole and their destructive effects on the sovereignty of the larger world. However, when I'm reading about a NASA project, I don't have the knee jerk reaction of "it's American! BAD!!!" That's because while there is some political gain to be had from the prestige of a space agency, there is very little direct economic or military advantage and the main purpose is scientific enrichment which has been beneficial for humanity as a whole, not just the US. NASA astronauts, scientists, and engineers may have their own nationalistic biases but I don't doubt that their primary motivation is a love for space sciences and they tend to have a more cosmopolitian view of humanity's future anyway. The same was true of the Russians and the Chinese who worked in this sector.

Now, there could be case to be made that the CCP could decide to hoard the scientific data for themselves and refuse to share it to the wider public but until I see this in action, I will remain cautiously optimistic. Roscosmos (formerly CCCP) were able to collaborate with NASA despite their host nations being mortal enemies on the wider world stage so I don't see why the CCP would risk hampering their progress by becoming isolationist when it comes to space research

Furthermore, this is a monumental achievement considering this is the first successful non US landing on Mars and was achieved on their first try! the countries are able to send probes there, the more data we can gather and that's always a net good.

Now if only the Russians could manage to dissolve the curse they seem to have when it comes to Mars rover missions, then we could have a seriously potent race.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#300

Post by d0100 »

cletus wrote: post #244

Weird that people get upset by this. I wonder how anyone complaining about "copying" feel about software patents. Honestly, I didn't even know about this mission until now. Good for China. I like "monuments" that countries engage in. They're not new. This is what Apollo was too. Better this than an F-35. If bananas have taught us anything, it's that monocultures are bad (reinforced by the various COVID vaccines I mig…

I am very anti-CCP and try to be vocal about it (my sister no longer lives there).

However I don't mind that China copies stuff, my biggest issue is how asymmetric their commercial policies are. Actually, pretty much any policy they have is very anti non Han Chinese

If China had any flavour of democracy I'd be much more supportive, my views intersect with many different aspects of Chinese culture

I wish my country would adopt some of the successful policies China has, without the absolute disregard for personal freedom/rights

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