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Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

brookings.edu

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Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#291

Post by [deleted] »

jcheng wrote: post #232
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's quite a few of us here making more more than 400k/year but less than Billion dollar money. My effective tax rate between state and federal is something like 55% before including sales taxes. These Billionaires find ways to pay basically nothing in tax because their wealth comes from capital gains and not from RSU + salary compensation which are taxed as normal salary. The bulk of the burden of new tax increas…

> My effective tax rate between state and federal is something like 55% before including sales taxes. That seems extremely high, what state is this? Do you mean the top marginal rate, or is that literally the effective rate when you file your 1040?

[deleted]

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#292

Post by rufus_foreman »

adav wrote: post #239
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #38

That's why i'm against high taxes. We get a bunch of random political parties, promising to "tax the rich" and stuff, we get new laws... and what happens? - The poor already pay very little tax - no change there - The rich avoid the tax by doing shady stuff (who remembers the panama papers.. or this.. or many other stories like these) - I, the middle class engineer get fucked by the taxes, and I get fucked hard, and…

It’s funny how everyone thinks that the threshold for any tax on the rich should always be a bit higher than their own circumstances!

Don’t tax you, don’t tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#293

Post by [deleted] »

MattRix wrote: post #231
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's quite a few of us here making more more than 400k/year but less than Billion dollar money. My effective tax rate between state and federal is something like 55% before including sales taxes. These Billionaires find ways to pay basically nothing in tax because their wealth comes from capital gains and not from RSU + salary compensation which are taxed as normal salary. The bulk of the burden of new tax increas…

There should definitely be efforts made to figure out how to tax those billionaires (and there are!), but that doesn’t mean that those making $400k shouldn’t be taxed way more as well. Let’s be honest, your life won’t change in any meaningful way because of this.

[deleted]

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#294

Post by rufus_foreman »

ceejayoz wrote: post #49
Trias11 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would be a single reason for person with $100MM of wealth to give $25MM away to wasteful, corruptive government? What kind of benefits the person is gaining by buying $25MM worth of taxes? I thought so too. Give that person a chance to reinvest these money into local economy, growing productive businesses instead of slapping the "filthy rich" label and suddenly there is a lots of capital are used for everyone…

> What kind of benefits the person is gaining by buying $25MM worth of taxes? Avoiding guillotines?

There are many people who would agree with your argument that taxation is extortion.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#295

Post by vmception »

jollybean wrote: post #149
vmception wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have noticed nothing "pejorative" in the language used in the document. First page after the abstract "It is this information asymmetry that gives rise to a host of problems" as opposed to benefits? This study is fairly balanced but chooses to only focus on illegal tax evasion by the wealthy and corrupt behavior of public officials. Instead of legal tax deferment or avoidance.

So what exactly are the 'benefits' of this information asymmetry? What 'benefit' is derived from Congolese President's ability to have 'hidden' accounts on the Isle of Man, instead of accounts that are available to be scrutinized by Congolese authorities?

If corrupt there is no benefit to argue in favor of, if not corrupt then access to the international markets obviously

Like I said, its actually strange to focus on corrupt behavior of public officials to say another country is the problem and not the corrupt official. A reason this is strange that you might not have considered is that more universally respected countries such as the US and the UK offer the same opaque tax evading capabilities to non-citizens as the smaller countries they complain about. As well as access to international markets. So focus on the corrupt person, or educate on how to use more competitive jurisdictions instead of being manipulated into the small country tax haven meme. Its just larger economic unions exempting themselves from scrutiny and saying other countries are the problem.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#296

Post by rufus_foreman »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #5
Trias11 wrote: post #3

>> the customers of offshore banks are likely to be from the wealthiest segment of whichever society they come from. What a surprising discovery. Governments with the most abusive tax policies still cannot realize that they cannot tax their way to prosperity. Most creative and productive people, entities and businessed did, do and will use any tools at their disposal to escape barbaric tax racket and turn their atten…

What do you recommend for people who want to increase their wealth but aren't rich yet? The people who have potential and a solid foundation but don't yet have the capital necessary to move around like that and find the most favorable place.

One word, Dogecoin.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#297

Post by [deleted] »

MattRix wrote: post #231
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's quite a few of us here making more more than 400k/year but less than Billion dollar money. My effective tax rate between state and federal is something like 55% before including sales taxes. These Billionaires find ways to pay basically nothing in tax because their wealth comes from capital gains and not from RSU + salary compensation which are taxed as normal salary. The bulk of the burden of new tax increas…

There should definitely be efforts made to figure out how to tax those billionaires (and there are!), but that doesn’t mean that those making $400k shouldn’t be taxed way more as well. Let’s be honest, your life won’t change in any meaningful way because of this.

[deleted]

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#298

Post by jollybean »

vmception wrote: post #295
jollybean wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what exactly are the 'benefits' of this information asymmetry? What 'benefit' is derived from Congolese President's ability to have 'hidden' accounts on the Isle of Man, instead of accounts that are available to be scrutinized by Congolese authorities?

If corrupt there is no benefit to argue in favor of, if not corrupt then access to the international markets obviously Like I said, its actually strange to focus on corrupt behavior of public officials to say another country is the problem and not the corrupt official. A reason this is strange that you might not have considered is that more universally respected countries such as the US and the UK offer the same opaq…

"if not corrupt then access to the international markets obviously"

? That is not a 'benefit' of hidden bank accounts.

"US and the UK offer the same opaque tax evading capabilities to non-citizens"

They don't really. Nations have tax treaties to avoid this kind of stuff. While there are loopholes etc. it's not going to be a good idea to keep stolen money in London, it will get frozen.

"So focus on the corrupt person" - the corruption is enabled by banking secrecy. A big focus on corruption is going after hidden networks.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#299

Post by vmception »

jollybean wrote: post #298
vmception wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If corrupt there is no benefit to argue in favor of, if not corrupt then access to the international markets obviously Like I said, its actually strange to focus on corrupt behavior of public officials to say another country is the problem and not the corrupt official. A reason this is strange that you might not have considered is that more universally respected countries such as the US and the UK offer the same opaq…

"if not corrupt then access to the international markets obviously" ? That is not a 'benefit' of hidden bank accounts. "US and the UK offer the same opaque tax evading capabilities to non-citizens" They don't really. Nations have tax treaties to avoid this kind of stuff. While there are loopholes etc. it's not going to be a good idea to keep stolen money in London, it will get frozen. "So focus on the corrupt person"…

All the “tax haven” countries have treaties and information sharing agreements that can result in freezing assets

You are conflating several concepts:

If you don’t want assets frozen then don’t use banks, they haven't been necessary for an entire decade. Bearer-everything is back in vogue.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#300

Post by EB66 »

closeparen wrote: post #287
EB66 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In some places $400k can give 8 families this life. In others not even one. It depends. Ummm, where exactly in the world is $400k per year not enough to survive? Monaco? If you earn $400k year after year, then you are earning enough to be "rich". But true, it's still possible to live beyond your means regardless of how much you earn and incur financial difficulty.

There’s a wide world between “survive” and the lifestyle I described. A wider universe between that lifestyle and “rich.” In San Francisco it's just about striking distance to the lifestyle I described. The commutes and the housing are generally a little worse.

In San Francisco a family can absolutely make do with $400k annual income, have a home, go to decent schools, put kids through college, save for retirement, etc. You wouldn't have to live in and commute from Oakland. You could still amass sufficient wealth to be considered "rich" by the time you retire. Average household income in SF is something near $135k. $400k is well well above that.

However, as I mentioned above, that same family (or even one that earns millions more) could easily put themselves into financial difficulty if they live beyond their means.

With $400k annual income you couldn't buy a single family home in the Pacific Heights neighborhood and if you had many children perhaps you couldn't afford to send them all to Harvard, but if you lived reasonably within your means you could certainly still be considered "rich".

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