Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#291

Post by username90 » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #115

croo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not op, but yes. Engagement traditionally is giving a ring to your desired future wife. I don't understand your point. Of course you can ignore tradition but then why marry in the first place?

> Of course you can ignore tradition but then why marry in the first place? Taxation, adoption, power of attorney, inheritance taxes, etc.

Those doesn't apply in all jurisdictions. There is no reason why laws should give special privileges to marriages over other forms of relationships.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#292

Post by kqr » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #281

vagrantJin wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Okay class, child labour, a few thousand poor people dead, terrorist groups starving hundreds of thousands, destroying schools and libraries. That is where diamonds come from. How many would still want a natural diamond because diamonds are forever?" The elephant in that lecture hall was probably the hypocrisy. I think if you still raise a hand after hearing all that, the issue isn't branding at all. It's narcissim,…

I personally fully agree, but unfortunately not everyone thinks as logically as you or I. I talked about this with my wife recently, and even though she had a vague idea of the horrors that mined diamonds bring, she'd still continue to buy/want mined diamonds. She sees mined diamonds as more "real", and finds it difficult to believe that her diamonds in particular would be part of the problem - as if it somehow would…

There's also a common line of reasoning that roughly goes "well this particular diamond has obviously already been mined, so no additional harm is caused by me wanting it."

Obviously you and I see that even that line of reasoning alone jacks up demand for an awful business, but not all people have the capacity to reason that abstractly about how their behaviour plays a part in a very big aggregate.

----

My wife did get this after some discussion, but we got stuck with a different problem: we asked virtually every local jeweller to create something with a lab-created diamond (or even a different shiny rock entirely) and all of them -- to our astonishment -- refused.

They only work with mined diamonds from the suppliers they have long-standing contracts with and can ensure are as ethical as they come. I'm sure they have their reasons but that was very frustrating.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#293

Post by Nursie » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

evrydayhustling wrote: post #225

joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

Diamond branding taps into a much more fundamental obsession with scarcity, which manufactured objects cannot provide. Scott Galloway explores this really well in a recent post comparing NFTs to long-standing art world practices: "Scarcity has always been a function of bits, not atoms." [1] I wonder if synthetic diamonds that were organized into specifically limited editions would hold more value... [1] https://www.p…

Potentially synthetic diamonds could destroy the scarcity appeal of natural diamonds.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#294

Post by aquadrop » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

frockington1 wrote: post #195

vulpesx2 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reaction. I've anecdotally asked this same question: "man-made or natural diamonds?" to my friends in the past – mostly because I can't get past the ethical concerns, but wanted to understand the other side. I found majority of my men friends argued it's the same diamond without the ethical concerns if you go man-made, while majority of my women friends chose natural (reasons included social pressure, the story,…

As a male giving a ring, I bought a real one. Logic was that it was cheaper and better quality once you get over ~1-1.25 carats. If lab made wants to compete more meaningfully they'll need to get better at the engagement ring size diamonds which I'm sure they will with time

They are both real.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#295

Post by ipaddr » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

offtop5 wrote: post #215

vagrantJin wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Okay class, child labour, a few thousand poor people dead, terrorist groups starving hundreds of thousands, destroying schools and libraries. That is where diamonds come from. How many would still want a natural diamond because diamonds are forever?" The elephant in that lecture hall was probably the hypocrisy. I think if you still raise a hand after hearing all that, the issue isn't branding at all. It's narcissim,…

It also factors into how someone grew up. I'd rather toss 10k into a couple emergency fund then waste it on a ring. Most marriages collapse due to money. I recall in my younger days I was with a girl and she dragged me to Brooks Brothers. As a child of poverty and evictions I couldn't understand why anyone who need to spend this much money on a shirt. Even making well into the 6 figures I shop at Old Navy. Hell, my f…

People buy expensive clothes because it makes others think they have money. By wearing a brand she is mentally leaving the proviety behind.

I don't think you have mentally left that state of mind. Thinking you need $10,000 in cash and telling everyone on the first date tells them this guy will never save more than 10,000 and he is cheap with his money. Might work for some but perhaps you are putting out a negative signal.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#296

Post by adamhp » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #281

vagrantJin wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Okay class, child labour, a few thousand poor people dead, terrorist groups starving hundreds of thousands, destroying schools and libraries. That is where diamonds come from. How many would still want a natural diamond because diamonds are forever?" The elephant in that lecture hall was probably the hypocrisy. I think if you still raise a hand after hearing all that, the issue isn't branding at all. It's narcissim,…

I personally fully agree, but unfortunately not everyone thinks as logically as you or I. I talked about this with my wife recently, and even though she had a vague idea of the horrors that mined diamonds bring, she'd still continue to buy/want mined diamonds. She sees mined diamonds as more "real", and finds it difficult to believe that her diamonds in particular would be part of the problem - as if it somehow would…

I had a similar conversation and I think you're spot on with "conditioning". I don't even think it is about luxury, necessarily. It's literally just how middle class+ white women grow up in the United States. I can't necessarily fault someone for making those kinds of emotional choices after being bombarded with that idea their entire lives.

Totally agree with your campaign idea too. I think a lot of it is social signaling and if there was enough of a big movement against them, diamonds would be "canceled" pretty quickly. Social pressure is one of the great guiding forces we have (for better and for worse).

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#297

Post by alienchow » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

My wife told me not to get anything for my eventual proposal because she's not going to be wearing it. She preemptively said yes before I did anything.

But a ring is still needed for the ceremony.

I bought some small amounts of rose gold and white gold, gave it to a custom jeweler and told them to do whatever they always wanted to do (but no client ever accepted) using only the gold I bought.

They gave me back a rose gold ring, with a gigantic "gemstone" made of the white gold I bought.

From far away, the ring made everyone think it had a huge diamond on it. It was really funny.

Total cost $1000 including labor, not cheap but at least the ring was special. Formally proposed with it and my wife liked it.

My wife, as promised, never wore it after the wedding. She likes to be not robbed.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#298

Post by HideousKojima » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

heliodor wrote: post #172

xenocratus wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the question might be a bit misleading. "Would you rather have X?" isn't the same as "Would you rather your spouse buys you X?". I'd prefer having a natural diamond too, for the same reason I'd prefer having a piece of ember with an insect that was trapped there naturally millions of years ago as opposed to a man-made one that was produced last month. By no means would I buy a natural diamond or support the m…

The current narrative is more along the lines of, "How much work should your fiancee spend on declaring his commitment to you?" The societal answer is at least two months. Salary is the convenient measure for this. The ring is the communication medium.

Which is super stupid, especially since there is a negative correlation between amount spent on rings and weddings and the success rate of a marriage: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/wedding-co...

I got my wife a custom designed ring with a fairly large moissanite stone for ~$1,200 all in, and we spent about $2,000-$3,000 on the wedding itself. My wife actually would have been upset with me if I had gotten her a real diamond. Not so much because of concerns over conflict (though she did care about that) but because she felt that spending that much on a useless stone was outright stupid.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#299

Post by clajiness » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

tda wrote: post #63

intsunny wrote: post #21

I wonder how well this Reddit-famous commentary about the diamond industry has aged: https://reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8pb8d5/i_grow_diamonds_i_...

There was an article the other day that talked about the resale value of diamonds. Basically jewelers refuse to buy back diamonds at any reasonable price (compared to original retail value. And refuse to make new rings with old diamond etc. So there is very little market for second hand diamonds. Sounds like a business ready to be disrupted Edit: Found the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/fashion/jewelry-d…

> Basically jewelers refuse to buy back diamonds at any reasonable price (compared to original retail value. And refuse to make new rings with old diamond etc.

I bought my wife's diamond out of an ugly ring I found at a pawn shop. I brought it to a jeweler at a mall and had him pop it in one of his bands.

I saved a TON of money, my wife got a modern design with a really high quality stone, and the jeweler still got some business and his ring on another finger.

Win/Win

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#300

Post by hyperpallium2 » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:19 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #281

vagrantJin wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Okay class, child labour, a few thousand poor people dead, terrorist groups starving hundreds of thousands, destroying schools and libraries. That is where diamonds come from. How many would still want a natural diamond because diamonds are forever?" The elephant in that lecture hall was probably the hypocrisy. I think if you still raise a hand after hearing all that, the issue isn't branding at all. It's narcissim,…

I personally fully agree, but unfortunately not everyone thinks as logically as you or I. I talked about this with my wife recently, and even though she had a vague idea of the horrors that mined diamonds bring, she'd still continue to buy/want mined diamonds. She sees mined diamonds as more "real", and finds it difficult to believe that her diamonds in particular would be part of the problem - as if it somehow would…

The solution is simple: make man-made diamonds more expensive than mined.