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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#291

Post by djbebs »

Sebb767 wrote: post #266
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

> This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. She actually addressees this in the very last paragraph: > if a business can’t pay a living wage, should it be a business?

Yes? I dont understand how this is a question.

If a businesa is in operation profitably it is because it is providing more value than if it were not, otherwise it would not be able to remain in business

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#292

Post by ForHackernews »

FFRefresh wrote: post #275
ForHackernews wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we're getting a little philosophical here, but I don't believe inanimate entities can experience "difficulty" or "misfortune". Would you say that a rock suffers "misfortune" if it topples off a cliff into the sea? Is it "difficult" for a glacier to maintain its integrity in the face of global warming? Is my car unfortunate to have been scratched in a parking lot? (OK, I do believe that last one, but I'm anthrop…

Is a group of people an inanimate entity to you? Are there only certain types of groups of people that you think are an animate entity?

If you want to get really pedantic about it, a company is not a "group of people": a company is a particular legal structure for organising a profit-making enterprise. So yes, it is an inanimate entity.

When we say things like "that Lions football team suffered a crushing defeat", we're engaging in metonymy -- referring to the suffering of the members of the team but speaking metaphorically about "the team".

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#293

Post by lotsofpulp »

throwawaygh wrote: post #274
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

> But they will, they will go down the street But... why? To save a couple bucks on a burger? This is a serious question. Is this really how consumer behavior works in the restaurant industry? Restaurant food isn't actually a commodity. A burger from one place can be quite different from a burger at another. Even at the low end -- I much prefer McD's to the other fast food joints. Atmospheres can be very different as…

> Maybe I'm just a weirdo?

Yes. The data clearly shows the vast majority of the restaurant business be a low margin, high risk venture. That must mean a majority of the customers are very price sensitive.

I can easily afford to pay double and triple what most restaurants charge today. But I’m not going to pay it because I can easily make a meal at home of better quality for less, just have to add in my time and energy.

Moreover, I don’t trust restaurants to not cut corners most of the time due to the volatility of their business.

But that’s all personal preference. I suspect most people just have limited budgets, so increased prices means less times they go out.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#294

Post by runako »

inetknght wrote: post #176
paulpauper wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But inflaiton is very low. yeah, CPI excludes stuff, but we're a long way from the 70s and 80s.

> inflaiton is very low No it isn't. My rent is up 80% since two years ago. Food costs are up 40%. Healthcare is up 200%. Good news though: fuel costs are about the same!

This is not the experience of most Americans. In fact, if these numbers are accurate for you I might suggest you employ a financial planner to help find alternatives.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#295

Post by inetknght »

loopercal wrote: post #250
inetknght wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> inflaiton is very low No it isn't. My rent is up 80% since two years ago. Food costs are up 40%. Healthcare is up 200%. Good news though: fuel costs are about the same!

>My rent is up 80% since two years ago. There's no major* rental market in the US where this is the case. * - There could be some oil boom in a 300 person town I don't know about I guess.

Houston, March 2019, my rent renewal was $1500/mo for a 12-month lease or $1500/mo for month-to-month or a new contract. Houston, October 2020, my rent renewal was $1500 for a 15-month lease or $2100/month for month-to-month or a new contract.

Okay so 80% is an exaggeration. 30% isn't.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#296

Post by throwawaygh »

gruez wrote: post #203
inetknght wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Food isn't optional. Getting a job that pays you money which you spend on food doesn't magically make the cost of food a cost of getting the job. Most people aren't able to get food without money obtained from a job. So unless your food is provided elsewhere then getting a job that pays you money which you spend on food does magically make the cost of food a cost of getting the job. > I made no such statement. Plea…

>Most people aren't able to get food without money obtained from a job. So unless your food is provided elsewhere then getting a job that pays you money which you spend on food does magically make the cost of food a cost of getting the job. That makes zero sense from an accounting point of view. >> I made no such statement. Please point out where you think I made that statement. >> $7.25 8 hours = $58. It's hard to i…

> That makes zero sense from an accounting point of view.

If your point of view prevents you from understanding that people need shelter, food, and clothing in order to not die, and must be alive in order to work, then your point of view might not be sufficient.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#297

Post by woopwoop »

kristjansson wrote: post #251
gruez wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. Can you elaborate on this? $7.25 * 8 hours = $58. It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day, especially if you factor in that in high cost of living areas the minimum wage is also higher than $7.25.

Your replies down thread indicate an extremely narrow interpretation of 'expenses' here, namely only those financial costs directly related to employment. Taking that interpretation, you're probably correct that nearly all jobs offer net-positive pay counting only the those inputs from the employee. You're right that someone with better off in immediate financial terms with basically any job than no job. However, tha…

I think his (gruez's) interpretation is the obviously reasonable one, and I'm not sure why he's getting bashed so severely here. Note that op made the claim that "net pay" was literally negative, which seems to comport totally with the interpretation given, and not at all with an interpretation of "sustainability" referring to a living wage.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#298

Post by conanbatt »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #256
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

> This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Good! I've been hearing about "the business side of the problem" my entire life -- lectured sternly about it, in many cases. All while few of the Adults and Experts - people with Real Power, in other words - dare even mention some of the topics laid out in the link. > I'm just saying that both sides of the equation need to be examined, i.e…

If a business closes, lots of people lose employment + business owners become more employment competition. Increasing unemployment wrecks wages.

It is also not free to give unemployment benefits, it requires higher taxation which moves the sustainability bar higher and more businesses close, etc etc.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#300

Post by tedsanders »

j1elo wrote: post #279
inetknght wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you elaborate on this? $7.25 8 hours = $58. It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day, especially if you factor in that in high cost of living areas the minimum wage is also higher than $7.25.* Wow can you be any more out of touch? Your comment is offensively innaccurate. $58/day = $1740 for 30 days Unhealthy cheap carbs for a single person... $200/month (chicken, beans, rice, milk, chee…

> Vehicle insurance on an old vehicle: $300/mo Wow. In Spain you would pay between €150 to 200 per year of insurance for the typical old cheap car. 400/year for a nice, semi luxury one. I knew some things were expensive in the States, but this particular one surprised me a lot.

It's not typical in the States. I own a new vehicle, have comprehensive insurance, and pay Geico ~$60/mo. I suspect that someone paying $300 for an old vehicle has either (a) an expensive low-deductible plan, (b) a driving record with past insurance claims, or (c) an expensive old car.
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