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Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

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Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#291

Post by BreakfastLover »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #261

If any Google employees are reading this thread and don't agree with this move, it seems like the kind of issue that the Alphabet Workers Union would be in a perfect position to help push back on. Join up: https://alphabetworkersunion.org/

The union is probably the reason. Pretty hard to have a strong united culture when everybody is at home reading the NYT about how Google is evil.

It's easier to think of Google as good when you face your coworkers, but when they are behind avatars and just text, it's easier to fall for the propaganda of the NYT et.al

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#292

Post by darawk »

raducu wrote: post #271
darawk wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, but I think it's reasonable to assume that their primary concern is productivity, and that at a company like Google, that concern will be analyzed in a data driven way. Perhaps they don't want to insult their developers by implying their productivity dipped, or something.

No, no, their primary concern is their own interest. A lot of politics gets much harder in remote work, and this is what these people are best at. It's not productivity, it's politics that is much harder to do when remote working.

You think that executives are forcing developers to come into the office so that they can play politics with their subordinates?

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#293

Post by darawk »

eertami wrote: post #257
darawk wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, but I think it's reasonable to assume that their primary concern is productivity, and that at a company like Google, that concern will be analyzed in a data driven way. Perhaps they don't want to insult their developers by implying their productivity dipped, or something.

Google doesn't make decisions based on data. Google makes decisions based on what gets someone a promotion.

What's the logic here? Why would the executive who made this decision get a promotion for this?

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#294

Post by qbasic_forever »

BreakfastLover wrote: post #291
qbasic_forever wrote: post #261

If any Google employees are reading this thread and don't agree with this move, it seems like the kind of issue that the Alphabet Workers Union would be in a perfect position to help push back on. Join up: https://alphabetworkersunion.org/

The union is probably the reason. Pretty hard to have a strong united culture when everybody is at home reading the NYT about how Google is evil. It's easier to think of Google as good when you face your coworkers, but when they are behind avatars and just text, it's easier to fall for the propaganda of the NYT et.al

You're going to have to walk me through this logic, because to me it reads as:

1. Alphabet Workers Union exists.

2. ???

3. Google is forced to return all its workers to in person work during a global pandemic.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#295

Post by kypro »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #206
ohthehugemanate wrote: post #199

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

Anecdotally, I've been a remote engineer on and off for ten years. There have been plenty of companies where I thought we might have achieved more with an office. Yes, I understand you can always improve your processes but there does feel like there are fundamental limitations with remote work.

I agree. I've been remoting working for most of the last decade and it's great from a work-life balance perspective, but I wouldn't recommend fully remote to any company.

In my experience part remote works much better, if not better than fully remote / fully office based. It's nice have a few days a week for in person meetings then some quiet time to get stuck into work at home.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#296

Post by square_usual »

austinjp wrote: post #288
wg0 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely - in knowledge economy, insisting on physical presence is darn damn stupid. And I don't want to hang "with friends at work" I go to "work" that has to be specified clearly and that I expect to deliver with purely professional merit driven collaboration and not friendships and gangs. I have friends or would love to have friends out of the place where I work. I want strict compartmentalisation between work a…

What about those who _do_ want a friendly workplace with some element of social interaction?

What about those who don't?

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#297

Post by ficklepickle »

gfxgirl wrote: post #277
mewse wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can highly recommend renting a co-working space once that's a viable option wherever you are in the world. These can be surprisingly inexpensive and often come with internet, electricity, etc. included. Gives both the "short commute" benefit of work-from-home, as well as the "maintaining a clear separation between home and work" benefit of on-location-work. And for me personally (as an introvert), it was fantastic…

Didn't work for me. The fact that we work on the same thing gives me more reasons to talk. I can't ask random people at a co-working space to help me debug an issue or to brainstorm a solution. They aren't familiar with my project the way co-workers would be. They also are not NDAed to look at what I'm working on

I don't understand. I work remotely and regularly debug issues and brainstorm solutions with my teammates. Their physical proximity is not relevant. Clearly I am missing something.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#298

Post by me_me_me »

austinjp wrote: post #288
wg0 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely - in knowledge economy, insisting on physical presence is darn damn stupid. And I don't want to hang "with friends at work" I go to "work" that has to be specified clearly and that I expect to deliver with purely professional merit driven collaboration and not friendships and gangs. I have friends or would love to have friends out of the place where I work. I want strict compartmentalisation between work a…

What about those who _do_ want a friendly workplace with some element of social interaction?

hybrid model, let your workers decide how they work as long they deliver.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#299

Post by Gustomaximus »

alexgmcm wrote: post #236
darawk wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered the possibility that executives in charge of tens of thousands of developers might have some data you don't regarding its impacts on productivity in aggregate?

If they do then why don't they share it? I mean they must realise this is a pretty unpopular decision so why not share their justification. Otherwise it's just an appeal to authority - "Ours not to reason why.."

> If they do then why don't they share it?

Sometimes its easier not to share. In a perfect world we'd be more transparent. If its an popular decision, discussion potentially fans the flames of disagreement and ill will. E.g. People take some small point of the rationale and blow it out of proportion for why this is bad etc, why it isn't relevant to them without seeing a bigger picture etc. I think we've all seen this. Sometimes its simpler and more efficient to say less.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#300

Post by irq »

gfxgirl wrote: post #252
ohthehugemanate wrote: post #199

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

Disagree completely. All metrics at my company, gamedev, show throughput is down ~66% since WFH Me, I want to go back to the office. Like hanging out with my work friends.

Down since WFH? Or down since the pandemic? Both have an impact on mental health and thus productivity metrics, and it’s important to differentiate, because the pandemic won’t be around forever, but it started around the same time as mass WFH.
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