Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes • Hacker News Board

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#291

Post by fennecfoxen » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

whoisninja wrote: post #237

CPI is a joke, they do something called hedonic adjustments to things like tech products etc. It's completely subjective and BS. Technology is deflationary, things should get cheaper because we go after producing them in creative ways one demand is high. CPI is absurd, it only perpetuates consumerism and punishes savers. We product 2x the food society consumes - mostly wasted away, just with some supply chain efficie…

> CPI is absurd, it only perpetuates consumerism and punishes savers.

Okay okay back up.

The consumer price index is a series of numbers designed to help people understand what dollar-denominated figures mean to ordinary people going about their lives, spending those dollars. If that's "consumerism," well yes, it's a portrait of consumerism.

Many economists, mind you, believe CPI doesn't correct quite enough, and suspect that it overstates the inflation it hopes to measure by around 1%. This is because it tracks the actual prices of a certain "market basket" of goods with specific products in it, and that basket gets out of date, as people substitute products.

But if someone's "punishing savers" and "perpetuating consumerism", it's not the index, and it's not the people compiling the index, and it's not the people trying to make the index more accurate by adjusting for quality. Assign the blame where it's due. You have a beef with the Federal Reserve, and possibly with other agencies or laws which refer to the CPI to make policy.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#292

Post by gher-shyu3i » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

zo1 wrote: post #259

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usury comes from the government taking loans with interest, so it is forced to print more money to cover its deficits which keep growing due to interest.

Printing money is the problem there, not interest. If you banned interest/loaning, you could still end up having inflation because government would print money (or do other things such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coin#Debasement_and_clipping ).

It's a combination of interest as well as printing money. Interest keeps the deficit growing, forcing the government to print money. If we switch to a non-inflationary currency not at the control of a single entity, these wouldn't happen.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#293

Post by whoisninja » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #271

whoisninja wrote: post #237

CPI is a joke, they do something called hedonic adjustments to things like tech products etc. It's completely subjective and BS. Technology is deflationary, things should get cheaper because we go after producing them in creative ways one demand is high. CPI is absurd, it only perpetuates consumerism and punishes savers. We product 2x the food society consumes - mostly wasted away, just with some supply chain efficie…

You might like "Less Than Zero: The Case for a Falling Price Level in a Growing Economy". Available for free online at http://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files... More or less the author argues that stable nominal spending, ie a constant level of nominal GDP, is pretty much ideal. And would lead to falling prices as you suggest. If you replace constant level with 'target a level of nominal GDP tha…

of course Mr. Selgin is influenced by Hayek, probably worth a read. thanks for sharing

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#294

Post by reedf1 » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

bfrog wrote: post #239

So housing and food has gone up dramatically, but still "inflation is low" is the story. Doesn't and hasn't passed the smell test in a decade.

"But TVs are cheaper!"

I guess my TV is a good emergency snack for when I can't afford food.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#295

Post by eru » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

whoisninja wrote: post #245

ErikAugust wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real question that nobody has yet answered: With what data CPI is even calculated? The data sources are all hidden. Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26259279

Keynesian economics kool-aid, all the Phd Econ guys worship guy who had done some really shady stuff in his life. Nobel prize in economics was started by Sveriges riksbank in 1968, just to perpetuate same ideaologies. Shady af.

Non-Keynesian economists, like the neo-classicals for example or the market monetarists or even the more serious of the Austrians, don't disagree here.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#296

Post by konjin » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #249

whoisninja wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keynesian economics kool-aid, all the Phd Econ guys worship guy who had done some really shady stuff in his life. Nobel prize in economics was started by Sveriges riksbank in 1968, just to perpetuate same ideaologies. Shady af.

Keynes was also a child sex tourist who frequently preyed on boys, sometimes with friends https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/2802/was-john-m... Edit: not sure why I’m being downvoted. He admitted in his diaries as a 30 year old man he would pay for sex from 16 year olds, and referenced others as “boys” without ages. By modern standards he would be a sex offender for life. We seem to hold all historical figu…

> By modern standards he would be a sex offender for life.

Age of consent in Britain in 16 and 14 in Central Europe. We also don't imprison 15 year olds for life.

Not all the world suffers from Yankee puritanism to the benefit of everyone.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#297

Post by whoisninja » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #291

whoisninja wrote: post #237

CPI is a joke, they do something called hedonic adjustments to things like tech products etc. It's completely subjective and BS. Technology is deflationary, things should get cheaper because we go after producing them in creative ways one demand is high. CPI is absurd, it only perpetuates consumerism and punishes savers. We product 2x the food society consumes - mostly wasted away, just with some supply chain efficie…

> CPI is absurd, it only perpetuates consumerism and punishes savers. Okay okay back up. The consumer price index is a series of numbers designed to help people understand what dollar-denominated figures mean to ordinary people going about their lives, spending those dollars. If that's "consumerism," well yes, it's a portrait of consumerism. Many economists, mind you, believe CPI doesn't correct quite enough, and sus…

do you realize all the calculations use CPI? the bond market is highly manipulated because of that, why have a market then? why are retail accounts in germany, netherland already negative rates? does that make sense to you? can banks make money that way? danger of nationalization of banking?

personal beef? no. I thought this is a forum for civil discussion and reasoning?

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#298

Post by fennecfoxen » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

ErikAugust wrote: post #261

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #178

" Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes " ...Food price rises ARE inflation!

So what gives? Does anyone have the data sets and the formulas used to calculate the CPI? No, I don't think so, because they are hidden. Until the data used to calculate the CPI is open, it is all speculation.

https://download.bls.gov/pub/time.series/

Be sure to refer to overview.txt and for more high-level details refer to https://www.bls.gov/cpi/data.htm and https://www.bls.gov/cpi/methods-overview.htm — you might also find relevant information on weighting here https://www.bls.gov/cpi/tables/relative-importance/home.htm

Typical entries in the AP (Average Price) series look like: APU0000701322 2015 M05 1.335

where APU0000701322 is a pound of spaghetti or macaroni, and M05 is May.

I thought of telling you off for spreading misinformation to incite, but I figured that saying it this would gets my point across more strongly.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#299

Post by marshmallow_12 » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

Haven't read the article, but i'm sure the problem could be greatly alleviated, or even entirely eradicated, by cutting down on food waste. I understand an absurd amount of food goes to waste, something like a third.

All around us, obscene amounts of food is going to the bin.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#300

Post by eru » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

whoisninja wrote: post #293

eru wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might like "Less Than Zero: The Case for a Falling Price Level in a Growing Economy". Available for free online at http://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files... More or less the author argues that stable nominal spending, ie a constant level of nominal GDP, is pretty much ideal. And would lead to falling prices as you suggest. If you replace constant level with 'target a level of nominal GDP tha…

of course Mr. Selgin is influenced by Hayek, probably worth a read. thanks for sharing

If you are expecting pure Hayek, you are in for a ride:

George Selgin is a dyed-in-the-wool fan of fractional reserve banking. (And with good reason.)